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  #1  
Old 08-29-2010, 01:23 PM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
Marc
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Default Another New T205 Variation

I have discovered another T205 variation. I have been tracking this card for several months and have not seen any other mention of this variation in the past. On the back of the John Miller card, the first line of text reads "John B. Miller, the young" on some cards and "John D. Miller, the young" on others. To this point, it seems the "John B." variation is slightly scarcer as I have only found it on Piedmont 25 and Polar Bear backs. Neither version is scarce overall as I have tracked numerous copies of each version. I have seen the "John D." variation on every other back (including some Piedmonts and Polar Bears as well).

This is unquestionably a variation as both versions appear on multiple backs as well as on the same (Piedmont and Polar Bear) backs. I am curious to know if anybody has the "John B." variation on any backs besides Piedmont 25 or Polar Bear.
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2010, 01:41 PM
ethicsprof ethicsprof is offline
Barry Arnold
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Default Marc

Congratulations on this discovery!!
I know that the thrill of this effort is most exhilarating.
Thanks for your ongoing scholarly efforts and contributions to the hobby.

all the best,
barry
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2010, 01:47 PM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Thanks for the kind words Barry. Honestly, I'm quite surprised that nobody has noticed this one before. Or maybe they have and just haven't brought it to light. Either way, it's always exciting to add another card to the checklist of a set, especially a major one such as this.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2010, 01:47 PM
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2010, 02:52 PM
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Nice find!

My question is this though.....

Do all Piedmont backed Millers have the "B" instead of the "D"?

This would be the same as the Mathewson stat error, where all the (I believe Hassan) backs have the error. If there are Piedmont Millers with a "D" and others with a "B", then I would think this is a major find. If, like the Matty, all Piedmont Millers have the "B", then, while still a nice catch, it wouldn't rise to the level of a major variation.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:00 PM
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Nice find!! I never notice stuff like this... good work!

but it's no Joe Jackson at Third base!! j/k
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Last edited by FUBAR; 08-30-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:05 PM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
Nice find!

My question is this though.....

Do all Piedmont backed Millers have the "B" instead of the "D"?

This would be the same as the Mathewson stat error, where all the (I believe Hassan) backs have the error. If there are Piedmont Millers with a "D" and others with a "B", then I would think this is a major find. If, like the Matty, all Piedmont Millers have the "B", then, while still a nice catch, it wouldn't rise to the level of a major variation.

Steve
Steve,
There are Piedmont backed Millers with the "D". I have an SGC 50 Piedmont 42 back that has the "D". I have yet to find a Piedmont 25 back that has the "D". Also, both variations appear with the Polar Bear back as well. This is unlike the Mathewson Cycle and Doc White Polar Bear variations which only appear with one back (though I still consider those variations anyway...not to reopen that debate ).
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:06 PM
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I think we have a "major" find here.

At least with Polar Bear, the card exists with both variations. I just looked on ebay, and found these two cards:



Steve
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:12 PM
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My apologies Marc. I just reread your initial post and found that you mentioned Piedmont and Polar Bear backed Millers exist with both variations. That fact went right over my head when I first read it.

I need more CAFFIENE!!!!!


Steve
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcdelpercio View Post
I have yet to find a Piedmont 25 back that has the "D".
Marc,

My Piedmont 25 has the "D" back. I believe that I bought this one from you last year.

r/
Frank
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default Miller 'B'

Good going, Marc. A super find. Now, which variation is the rarest? Everyone should compare their Polar Bears and Piedmonts.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:03 PM
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Marc - great find! The T205 issue still has much to be discovered and researched.
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:05 PM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Thanks Ron and Matt,
I have tracked less of the "B" variation overall as I have only found them thus far with Piedmont 25 and Polar Bear backs. Within the Piedmonts, I have seen more "B" than "D" and within Polar Bear, I have seen them both in almost equal numbers. I am curious to hear what versions people have and if there are other "B" backs besides Piedmont or Polar Bear.

P.S. Congrats Ron on picking up some of those T207's tonight. I'm sure you outbid me on a few.

Last edited by marcdelpercio; 08-29-2010 at 10:06 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:10 PM
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Default Piedmont - "D" - kind of

My Miller Pied 25 looks a lot like Turner's Polar Bear above - the "D" looks to be smudged in a way that suggests a "B".



Still, very very cool - great eyes, Marc!
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:20 PM
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I will have to check later in the week but considering I have several Millers, it might be interesting. Good find! I thought I knew everything T205 too!

Joshua
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:27 PM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Thanks Mike and Joshua,
I have noticed a few that have the smudged look. I have one of those myself. It looks like the printing plate was dinged or something. Some are very clearly "D" and some are very clearly "B" but there is almost a third "smudged" variation.

Last edited by marcdelpercio; 08-29-2010 at 10:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-30-2010, 06:00 AM
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Default Hassan

My Miller is a Hassan back and it reads John D. Miller
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcdelpercio View Post
Thanks Mike and Joshua,
I have noticed a few that have the smudged look. I have one of those myself. It looks like the printing plate was dinged or something. Some are very clearly "D" and some are very clearly "B" but there is almost a third "smudged" variation.
Marc - I would posit indeed a 3rd variation. Conjecture: At some point in the run, they realized they were printing a D when it should have been a B (for Barney) and tried a "quick fix" of scratching the D in the plate to turn it into a B. It was replaced by a true B in a later run.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2010, 09:12 AM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Matt,
That sounds very reasonable. It obviously was corrected to a "B" at some point in the print run so that makes sense in explaining the smudgy looking ones and may also give some insight into the timing of the print runs with various backs. It is strange though that they never corrected the other "D" in his name just above this line.
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2010, 01:35 PM
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Very exciting !!

I love it when a new discovery is found - nice work.

Regards,
S
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