T215 Red Cross actually a T206?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Most of you guys know my opinion regarding the 1910 COUPON cards. In the past 6 years, I have posted several threads on this subject.

Check out these threads........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=Quintuplicate
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=1910+coupon

It is a NO-BRAINER, these cards are indeed the 16th T-brand of the T206 set; as, they were issued in the Spring/Summer of 1910 (concurrently with the AMERICAN BEAUTY,
BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards).
With all due respect to Burdick....he mis-classified this sub-set of 68 cards. Burdick's records indicate that they were issued "circa 1913-15"......this timeline is absolutely incorrect !
So, we'll give Burdick a "mulligan" on this one


This group of five T-brands were printed & issued circa Spring/Summer of 1910



RED CROSS (T215-1)





This issue is somewhat more complicated, as it derives subjects from the 150 series, 350 series, and the 460 series. Although, some of the RED CROSS cards were issued
in 1910, others were issued in early 1912 (evident by team trades reflected in their captions). So, I'm not ready to venture out on a limb and say the T215-1 should be
classified as part of the T206 set. Check out this thread........
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=red+cross

The 1910 COUPON....absolutely YES


TED Z

Ed

You and I (and, if I recall correctly, Scott Brockelman) appear to be the only guys on this forum that think the 1910 COUPON cards are really T206's. Perhaps, there are others,
but they choose not to get into this fray ?




P.S.....Look guys, I view this simply as an academic exercise....as, nothing will ever come of it. I have no axe to grind. Currently, I have 12 cards from this 1910 Coupon issue.
Furthermore, I certainly don't ever expect to complete this set of 68 cards


TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

...

Currently, I have 12 cards from this 1910 Coupon issue.
Furthermore, I certainly don't ever expect to complete this set of 68 cards


TED Z

Quitter

[tedzan]

There's "bigger fish to fry" than these "COUPON" cards. Besides, it would probably take 20 years for me to acquire the remaining 56 cards.
At my age, I don't think it's do-able

Received your email....and, those are weird looking CJ's.

I'll send you my weird looking T206.....it will give you a chuckle


Take care ole buddy,

T-Rex TED

[Runscott]

Ted, I want to see the bigger fish you plan on frying.


Also, Tim's comment above reminded me of a question that still remains unanswered. If anyone other than Ted considers me worthy of discussing such nuances, please chime in:

How did the printing plates survive the end of the T206 printing in 1911, the break-up of the ATC, and the lapses between Coupon card printing, all the way through 1916? (then they disappeared, presumably destroyed) Theories?

edited to add: this might seem too tangential, but I think it's relevant to the T206 vs T213 vs T215 discussion.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ted, I want to see the bigger fish you plan on frying.

How did the printing plates survive the end of the T206 printing in 1911, the break-up of the ATC, and the lapses between Coupon card printing, all the way through 1916? (then they disappeared, presumably destroyed) Theories?

edited to add: this might seem too tangential, but I think it's relevant to the T206 vs T213 vs T215 discussion.

Scott

The American Tobacco Co. did not have the printing plates, the printing plates were the property of the American Lithographic Company. American
Lithographic (like most major printing firms) produced multiple printing plates. I realized this was standard printer's practice in 1983. When a former
Bowman Gum employee walked into a BB card shop in Cherry Hill, NJ with the 7 original printing (32-image) plates which were used to print the 224
cards of the 1954 Bowman BB set. He also had duplicate plates of these 7 plates.


TED Z

[RCMcKenzie]

The t206resource site has t215-1 listed in their scarcity rankings list, un-numbered, between 8 lenox-black and 9 bl 350. They list t213-1 between 10 blank-back and 11 Carolina Brights. I sort of like this idea of including them with t206 cards without changing the terminology. I know my collection of T213-1 would be worth alot more money if everyone just considered them a difficult t206 back.

Lipset has some interesting points on the T213-1 in his encyclopedia. The most interesting to me is where he states that it is doubtful that the set is complete at 68.

[atx840]

Scott, I am also wondering about the plates.

The pirate back T215s are puzzling as that brand was used on all sorts of card types..I have also found pirate backed cards depicting Chinese buildings with Chinese characters printed over the pirate backs. Where these printed in the US or in China?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Lipset has some interesting points on the T213-1 in his encyclopedia. The most interesting to me is where he states that it is doubtful that the set is complete at 68.

Lipset's encyclopedia was published in the mid-1980's; and, the 1910 COUPON set was not fully understood back then in the hobby. Since then it is quite well established
that there are 48 - Major Leaguers, and 20 - Southern Association subjects in this set.

When Bill Heitman published his famous book on "The Monster" in 1980, he did not mention the existense of the Red HINDU cards in the T206 set. That is just how things
were in the hobby back in the early 1980's.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

It's my opinion that all of the T215-1's were issued in 1912. A year after the conclusion of the T206 set and after the breakup of the ATC trust.