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[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Just my humble opinion, but I do believe in second chances and will reserve judgement for the time being. People can and do change all the time. I would cite Michael Milken as a great example. He was disgraced during the junk bond scandal in the late 1980's, served his prison sentence and became a leading advocate for cancer research whose philanthropic endeavors have raised hundreds of millions for cancer research.

I most definitely believe in second chances too. I give them to people all of the time. However, you need to EARN your second chances. Until someone is sincere and honest and shows signs of truly changing, buyer beware. I've found that someone that can't (or won't) admit they made a mistake and apologize for it instead of giving lame excuses as to why "things were different then", has not yet earned this second chance. Con men thrive on those who blindly give a second chance. Hold people accountable for their actions if you want change.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me ...

jeff

[wolf441]

Point taken Jeff,

I'm not advocating blindly giving a second chance. I'm just interested to see how things play out. Just from being a member of Net54 for a very short period of time, I don't believe that the crowd here will be taken in by a less than 100% honest auction house. And seeing Scott Gaynor involved gives me hope as well.

Best wishes,

Steve

[jefferyepayne]

I wish you were right. In other threads on Net54, people have said they will participate in any auctions that has the cards they need, irrespective of the ethics or past behavior of the auction house / owner. Unfortunately it appears that very few are willing to do what's right if it results in even a small amount of personal loss.

The con men are laughing all the way to the bank when this attitude prevails and anyone in the hobby with a positive brand needs to be careful associating themselves with those of questionable ethics. In business, your brand is partially determined by who you associate with...

jeff

Originally Posted by wolf441

Point taken Jeff,

I'm not advocating blindly giving a second chance. I'm just interested to see how things play out. Just from being a member of Net54 for a very short period of time, I don't believe that the crowd here will be taken in by a less than 100% honest auction house. And seeing Scott Gaynor involved gives me hope as well.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Tabe]

I, too, spent many hours watching Ken Goldin on SAH during the late hours of the evening back then. It was entertainment as much as anything. However, I must disagree vehemently with Goldin when he says "that's how it was done" or otherwise shrugs off his selling tactics on SAH. I can live with cards being overhyped, to some degree. However, Golding and West often just flat-out lied. To cite one example, they hyped Mark McGwire Glacier Pilots cards a LOT when I was watching. Over and over and over calling it a "pre-rookie". Ok, whatever. Problem is, they (both of them) also stated, over and over, that it was a "1982 Glacier Pilots" card. That's just patently false. The card was printed in 1989 not 1982. To say it was a 1982 card is lying, it's not puffery. It's not overhyping, it's LYING. I've got a set Renatta Galasso made of the 1961 Yankees sometime in the early 80s. If I called it a 1961 Renatta Galasso set, I'd be LYING. Yet that's exactly what Goldin and SAH did.

So, sorry guys, but I'll be keeping my $$$ away from this auction venture.

Tabe

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I wish you were right. In other threads on Net54, people have said they will participate in any auctions that has the cards they need, irrespective of the ethics or past behavior of the auction house / owner. Unfortunately it appears that very few are willing to do what's right if it results in even a small amount of personal loss.

The con men are laughing all the way to the bank when this attitude prevails and anyone in the hobby with a positive brand needs to be careful associating themselves with those of questionable ethics. In business, your brand is partially determined by who you associate with...

jeff

Okay, so you won't bid on items sold by an auction house of questionable ethics. I assume you also wouldn't have a friend bid for you? Some have gone so far as to say they won't even sit at a dinner table if someone representing such an auction house is present. Do you also check to see who cards were bought from, just to insure that you don't buy from someone who buys from such auction houses? Will you eat at the same restaurants they eat at? Will you have anything to do with a bar that sells their employees a beer?

Let's find all these people and and get this hobby cleaned up properly!

[Ladder7]

Right, bash the guy for his honorable stance. What are you smokin?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

Right, bash the guy for his honorable stance. What are you smokin?

IMO this Goldin guy was just an easy target for these "hobby crusaders". Just take a look at the topic vintagetoppsguy started... a pretty big deal if you ask me... you can hear crickets in that thread.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

IMO this Goldin guy was just an easy target for these "hobby crusaders". Just take a look at the topic vintagetoppsguy started... a pretty big deal if you ask me... you can hear crickets in that thread.

Ummm, not really. This thread has 278 posts in 9 days. That's about 31 per day. The PSA thread started by vintagetoppsguy has 78 posts in 2 days. 39 per day.

Sounds like both of these important topics are getting plenty of coverage / visibility as they should. I completely agree that that topic is a huge deal.

jeff

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Okay, so you won't bid on items sold by an auction house of questionable ethics. I assume you also wouldn't have a friend bid for you? Some have gone so far as to say they won't even sit at a dinner table if someone representing such an auction house is present. Do you also check to see who cards were bought from, just to insure that you don't buy from someone who buys from such auction houses? Will you eat at the same restaurants they eat at? Will you have anything to do with a bar that sells their employees a beer?

Let's find all these people and and get this hobby cleaned up properly!

The old slippery slope argument!! But to quote one of my favorite quotes, just because there's a slippery slope doesn't mean you need to ski to the bottom.

[Runscott]

Peter, I was sort of joking - I don't really think it's so slippery. Each person has their own ethics regarding this, and I definitely appreciate those who are looking out for the hobby.