new member introduction

[scgaynor]

I look at the SAH days and the current auction it as two different things.

The SAH days were a different time in the hobby and in Ken's life. Ken said himself that he was not proud of those sales tactics.

The catalog auction is aimed at a more advanced audience and the material sells itself. You won't see the "hype" of the SAH days. I know because I will probably be writing a bunch of the copy, and that is not my style at all. Ken's attention is focused on dealing with the players and agents.

To answer Peter's question. The assets were purchased by Oxford at auction in 1999. Sorry I was unclear. It is unknown what they did with the Wagner card.

Scott

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

I know because I will probably be writing a bunch of the copy, and that is not my style at all. Scott

Having seen & bid on Scott's auctions quite a bit in the early 2000's, I can say that his involvement is extremely encouraging. Always an honest dealer and some of the best items that I've ever owned.

[aaroncc]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

I look at the SAH days and the current auction it as two different things.

The SAH days were a different time in the hobby and in Ken's life. Ken said himself that he was not proud of those sales tactics.

The catalog auction is aimed at a more advanced audience and the material sells itself. You won't see the "hype" of the SAH days. I know because I will probably be writing a bunch of the copy, and that is not my style at all. Ken's attention is focused on dealing with the players and agents.

To answer Peter's question. The assets were purchased by Oxford at auction in 1999. Sorry I was unclear. It is unknown what they did with the Wagner card.

Scott

Scott, curious is that the same T206 Wagner that David Kohler was trying to sell at the National in 1997?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

The catalog auction is aimed at a more advanced audience and the material sells itself. You won't see the "hype" of the SAH days.

Scott thanks for the response.

The above statement troubles me a bit if I’m being honest and I could just be reading into your comment too much if so I apologize.

What does that really mean?

To me I read that statement as Ken has had to change his game plan or sales tactics because he’s not selling middle America late night naive TV viewers who don’t know any better anymore. Saying that something sells itself all things should in a way sell themselves to a degree.

Why did the stuff from the 90’s need the extra dramatics and aggressive sales style? I think we all know that answer. Sadly it was that audience that got the shaft and learned the answer to that question the hard way.

To say that Ken won’t adopt that tactic to advanced hobbyists is sort of a “duh” statement. He won’t do that because it won’t work on his new audience. Saying that it’s all better now and he can’t pull those tactics because of the clientele and material has changed…doesn’t seem to take away or make me feel any better and I’m sure the folks who got sold the SAH goods especially take no comfort in that.

Cheers,

John

[scgaynor]

I think that the thing to do is revisit this thread in October when people have a catalog in their hands and reserve judgement until that time. I am confident that after the catalog comes out and the auction takes place, that opinions will begin to change.

Scott

[wonkaticket]

Scott fair enough, for me I will have a hard time moving past or seeing past Ken’s SAH antics it will take one hell of a catalog to make we want to jump into that pool. Who knows perhaps he will have just that catalog.

Not that you care or need my approval in anyway. But no ill will to you here I think you are a standup guy and you being involved is a bit of head scratcher.

Cheers,

John

[travrosty]

I don't understand the comment, "it was a different hobby" back then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qVRa...feature=relmfu

2:10 mark

this is where the money is, you wanna rob a bank baby, you gonna rob a bank right now!


check out part two also, at the 25 second mark.
All of the cards are rookie cards according to them. He names off all the rookie cards, he names Jordan, the cards they show, show this north carolina finest jordan. this is what they consider a jordan rookie card? It's in the loose change bin and no one considers it a rookie card.

Then on another program, rookies, rookies rookies, which contain only rookie cards they show this larry bird card. its not the topps 80-81 tri-panel rookie which the hobby calls his rc, so what is it? they showed a magic johnson of the same type.

[jefferyepayne]

Looking at a catalog isn't going to solve anything for me (and hopefully a lot of others). This discussion is about ethics, and pretty pictures in a catalog don't tell you anything about the ethics of the people involved.

It's time for collectors in this hobby to take a stand and STOP BIDDING on auctions by those you believe are unethical. Until that happens, nothing will change. It frosts me when someone says they will still bid on an item if they need it even if they believe the individuals involved are unethical. Have some principles, people. It's the only way this will ever change.

jeff

Originally Posted by scgaynor

I think that the thing to do is revisit this thread in October when people have a catalog in their hands and reserve judgement until that time. I am confident that after the catalog comes out and the auction takes place, that opinions will begin to change.

Scott

[Ladder7]

Well put Jeff. The only way to clean this stinkin' house.

Even those 'it'll have to be a really great item to get me to bid' guys, riding the fence perpetuate the issue.

Online, the shyster's found religion... In reality;


Have a terrific day,
Steve F

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think the thread comes down to the larger question, do we forgive people their past sins, or do we not.

For some of us, past sins are irrelevant, as long as we can get the items we want. Indeed, for these folks, ONGOING sins may not matter. Stuff trumps all. Or perhaps a less harsh assessment is that we feel that as individuals we won't make any difference anyhow, so we might as well get the items we want.

For others, whether to forgive past sins depends on the attitude of the sinner. I think most people (except maybe Wonka LOL) are willing to forgive or at least give a second chance to sinners who show genuine remorse. As I see it, what got Ken into trouble here was not his SAH days per se, but his apparent lack of genuine remorse. Perhaps he just chose his words poorly, but in a format like this all we have to go on are people's words.

And I agree that the catalog really isn't the issue.

[wolf441]

Just my humble opinion, but I do believe in second chances and will reserve judgement for the time being. People can and do change all the time. I would cite Michael Milken as a great example. He was disgraced during the junk bond scandal in the late 1980's, served his prison sentence and became a leading advocate for cancer research whose philanthropic endeavors have raised hundreds of millions for cancer research.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Looking at a catalog isn't going to solve anything for me (and hopefully a lot of others). This discussion is about ethics, and pretty pictures in a catalog don't tell you anything about the ethics of the people involved.

It's time for collectors in this hobby to take a stand and STOP BIDDING on auctions by those you believe are unethical. Until that happens, nothing will change. It frosts me when someone says they will still bid on an item if they need it even if they believe the individuals involved are unethical. Have some principles, people. It's the only way this will ever change.

jeff

I very much agree with your post. I never understood why people continued to bid on those types of auctions.