1954 Topps Willie Mays SGC 50

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Sorry man.. Didn't realize you were on this forum, and certainly didn't know that you had a post about that card already up! Didn't mean to create any confusion.. Just was looking for some opinions on the card, but apparently you were already fishin' in this pond! I'm probably the youngest guy on here admittedly.. and I am completely new to the online marketplace, so I am learning as I go... It's kind of a trial and error thing.. I promise that I mean no harm in anything that I do, and I most certainly have no malice intent.. I guess you kinda learn by learning what not to do.. I know one thing... I certainly cannot count on anyone helping me out on this forum, unless, of course, I do something that they don't agree with....I don't recall anyone taking this "new member" under their wing to teach me the ropes...If I may speak freely... I would have thought that a vintage site would encourage new membership.. I would have thought that they would be pleased when new collectors find the forum.. Who do you think is going to be buying all of these vintage cards in 20 to 30 years? I am not 70.. or 60.. or 50.....or 40.... I am barely 30... I can promise that I don't know of any others in their early 30's that are interested in vintage... I can certainly tell you that no one less than 30 is... They all want the 1/1's.. the "refractors" and "parallel's".. (whatever those are).. They aren't interested in vintage.. So you can alienate me, or anyone else that comes on here that "doesn't do things the way that they're suppose to be done".. but what you're really doing is pushing the young guns out that will be the future of this DYING industry.. My entire life, I have lived, eaten and breathed vintage baseball cards.. I have pictures up on my website from when I was a dealer at 12 years old... I hung out at local baseball card shops as much as mom would let me.. There is no possible way for me to have 50 years of collecting experience, but I believe, for my age, I know a lot.. I am trying here, and that ought to count for something...So, sorry, I guess... - Marshall

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

Note to Marshall, you are not making any friends with your tactics to try and buy and sell. Your methods so far have a bit to be desired.

Lee

[mintacular]

Marshall, chill out. It is a very good community here //don't let a couple comments get you all bent out of shape. People here have been around the block a few times so when a newbie breaks some unwritten rules card (ex: pre-selling a card they don't own yet) it is commonplace to bust some balls a bit. Don't get defensive, etc. just try to learn from your mistakes and tread a bit more softly until you have established yourself. At the end of the day you can say and do what you want here for the most part but that doesn't mean you should or that people will agree with your comments/actions. It is an open forum on the internet so part of the price you have to pay is that others may make comments that you disagree with and/or irritate you.

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Thank you for your kind words!

Originally Posted by mintacular

Marshall, chill out. It is a very good community here //don't let a couple comments get you all bent out of shape. People here have been around the block a few times so when a newbie breaks some unwritten rules card (ex: pre-selling a card they don't own yet) it is commonplace to bust some balls a bit. Don't get defensive, etc. just try to learn from your mistakes and tread a bit more softly until you have established yourself. At the end of the day you can say and do what you want here for the most part but that doesn't mean you should or that people will agree with your comments/actions. It is an open forum on the internet so part of the price you have to pay is that others may make comments that you disagree with and/or irritate you.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

How do you explain selling reprint T206s on your site at prices reflecting them being real and not saying they are reprints. You need to step back and find out what this forum is all about and not jump to conclusions and try to take advantage of people on forums for your profit.

Take some time read the board. Find out what collecting pre-WWII is all about you obviously have alot to learn about the hobby, what's real, what's not, and the people in it.

Lee

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

try not to take advantage of people on forums for your profit.

Marshall, I think you need to listen to this point the most. There's nothing wrong with flipping cards for a profit. It's just bad taste to do it on the same forum on which you're buying them. And you don't even try to hide it.

There are a lot of good folks on here. Many of them are willing to sell here on the B/S/T for slightly less than market value because they don't have the hassle of eBay, auction durations, fees, returns, etc. There's also many that give good deals because they just want to help their fellow collectors. But when they think they're being taken advantage of or they know you're only going to try to flip the card for a profit, they may not deal with you anymore.

[cobblove]

Do you need a hand out? Welcome new collector/flipper. Good luck hope you dont blame us for not selling the card before you owned it yourself.

[sycks22]

You talked about how you don't know anyone under 30 who's into vintage cards. I'm 29 and there was a poll on here a while back about saying your age and I'm not the youngest on here. Best of luck.

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

I'll be the first to admit, that there is always more to be learned... I believe the "reprint T206's" goes back to the "no malice intent" argument.. I certainly don't claim to know anything about those, and am not in the market for T206's.. all you have to say is.. hey... those are not real, you should take them down...instead you say... "How do you explain selling reprint T206's at prices reflecting them as real".. This statement, sir, implies that there is malice intent on my behalf, that I knowingly, and willingly, am selling cards that I knew were reprints in an effort to deprive some other uninformed soul into spending his hard earned money on fake crap! This is certainly not the case, I can assure you... I am not, nor will I ever be an expert of pre-war cards, because I have no interest in them...The cards in question have been removed from the site...

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

How do you explain selling reprint T206s on your site at prices reflecting them being real and not saying they are reprints. You need to step back and find out what this forum is all about and not jump to conclusions and try to take advantage of people on forums for your profit.

Take some time read the board. Find out what collecting pre-WWII is all about you obviously have alot to learn about the hobby, what's real, what's not, and the people in it.

Lee

[Leon]

The problem here is not the forum, the cards, the hobby, the ages etc....

The problem is YOU. YOU are doing sort of unethical things by starting this thread to see if anyone would buy a card for more than OUR member is selling it for. That borders on unethical, at best. I advised you, in several emails, that 2 of your T206s were blatant fakes. Really bad ones. You then told me that you will go ahead and send them in to be authenticated. That is just plain stupid but at least you took them down. Then, this morning I see 2 more really bad T206 fakes on your site again. Smart people learn from their mistakes. I suggest you sit back and read and learn about what you are doing before trying to sell and make yourself look even more foolish. BTW, there are hundreds of guys on this forum in their early 30s or younger. There are probably a dozen or more teenagers too. And as far as taking someone under their wing, we do it all of the time. But we reserve that for people acting honestly and not trying to "guage" the price of a card we might buy so we can immediately flip it for a profit ALL ON THE SAME COLLECTOR venue (this board). Let this be your 2nd warning (inclusive of our PMs)....regards

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

I'll be the first to admit, that there is always more to be learned... I believe the "reprint T206's" goes back to the "no malice intent" argument.. I certainly don't claim to know anything about those, and am not in the market for T206's.. all you have to say is.. hey... those are not real, you should take them down...instead you say... "How do you explain selling reprint T206's at prices reflecting them as real".. This statement, sir, implies that there is malice intent on my behalf, that I knowingly, and willingly, am selling cards that I knew were reprints in an effort to deprive some other uninformed soul into spending his hard earned money on fake crap! This is certainly not the case, I can assure you... I am not, nor will I ever be an expert of pre-war cards, because I have no interest in them...The cards in question have been removed from the site...

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Not a problem Zeus.... To clarify.. I didn't ask for opinions on the same forum,.. because as I stated, I didn't even know he was on this forum.. I also stated that I wasn't looking to pre-sell the card, I actually stated that "I am not looking to pre-sell the card or anything." I was looking for feedback on the card. You brought up the old T 206's.. I figured removing them from the site would have been sufficient...? The other T 206's were not added, and were there at the time that the previous 2 were removed. Had you pointed those two out at the time as the other 2, I would have removed them at that time. Marshall

Originally Posted by Leon

The problem here is not the forum, the cards, the hobby, the ages etc....

The problem is YOU. YOU are doing sort of unethical things by starting this thread to see if anyone would buy a card for more than OUR member is selling it for. That borders on unethical, at best. I advised you, in several emails, that 2 of your T206s were blatant fakes. Really bad ones. You then told me that you will go ahead and send them in to be authenticated. That is just plain stupid but at least you took them down. Then, this morning I see 2 more really bad T206 fakes on your site again. Smart people learn from their mistakes. I suggest you sit back and read and learn about what you are doing before trying to sell and make yourself look even more foolish. BTW, there are hundreds of guys on this forum in their early 30s or younger. There are probably a dozen or more teenagers too. And as far as taking someone under their wing, we do it all of the time. But we reserve that for people acting honestly and not trying to "guage" the price of a card we might buy so we can immediately flip it for a profit ALL ON THE SAME COLLECTOR venue (this board). Let this be your 2nd warning (inclusive of our PMs)....regards

[campyfan39]

Cowboy wisdom:

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

Not a problem Zeus....

Zeus???

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

I also stated that I wasn't looking to pre-sell the card, I actually stated that "I am not looking to pre-sell the card or anything." I was looking for feedback on the card.

I don't understand. What kind of feedack were you looking for? When you state, "How much would you be willing to buy the card for?" then to me (and other too) it sounds like you're trying to pre-sell it.

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Zeus is the one who rules all.. He comes down periodically to shed his forum wisdom AKA Owner of the forum

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Zeus???




I don't understand. What kind of feedack were you looking for? When you state, "How much would you be willing to buy the card for?" then to me (and other too) it sounds like you're trying to pre-sell it.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Zeus???




I don't understand. What kind of feedack were you looking for? When you state, "How much would you be willing to buy the card for?" then to me (and other too) it sounds like you're trying to pre-sell it.

The way you keep blundering along as a noob on this forum with all your innane posts, makes me think you'd be a perfect match for all the yahoos on the CU board. Just my dos centavos . . .

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

I was looking for feedback.. as I stated.. Again.. I'm new to the whole graded card thing, since that wasn't around when I collected... So I am aware that not all grade 4's are considered equal (from what i've been told).. As one member pointed out, the card appears to be blurry etc...

So yeah.. an answer to that question would be...I wouldn't pay more than X amount for the card, yeah it's graded a 4, but it's blurry, so it would probably go for the low end of what a 4 is worth.. etc..

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Zeus???




I don't understand. What kind of feedack were you looking for? When you state, "How much would you be willing to buy the card for?" then to me (and other too) it sounds like you're trying to pre-sell it.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

Not a problem Zeus.... To clarify.. I didn't ask for opinions on the same forum,.. because as I stated, I didn't even know he was on this forum.. I also stated that I wasn't looking to pre-sell the card, I actually stated that "I am not looking to pre-sell the card or anything." I was looking for feedback on the card. You brought up the old T 206's.. I figured removing them from the site would have been sufficient...? The other T 206's were not added, and were there at the time that the previous 2 were removed. Had you pointed those two out at the time as the other 2, I would have removed them at that time. Marshall

I will make it easy for you pull all of your T206's and then go figure out what a T206 looks like even post pictures on here politely asking for help. Calling Leon Zeus was a bit funny sorry Leon, but I have to be honest.

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

"I will make it easy for you pull all of your T206's and then go figure out what a T206 looks like even post pictures on here politely asking for help. Calling Leon Zeus was a bit funny sorry Leon, but I have to be honest."

Ok.. I read the .pdf on examining Pre-War cards within the "detecting card alterations and reprints" section of the forum. Here is what I was able to come up with about the T206's that I won at the auction based on the .pdf:

1. I used a black light, but non of the cards "glowed", so they were either made with older stock, or with paper that did not contain a brightener.....
2. The borders (where the color meets the white border) on these T206's are crisp, where as borders on other T206's appear to bleed, there is a gap between the colored print and white border, or the color print crosses over into the white border.
3. These T206's appear to have a gloss, where other T206's do not.
4. The font used on the player name and team are different than other T206's
5. The spacing of the letters on the name and team are different. The spacing on these cards all appears to be the same from one letter to the next, while the spacing on other T206's is different from letter to letter.. Some letters are given more spacing than others...
6. The size of the letters on these are all congruent, where other T206's display some letters that are larger than others... (T is larger than A) for example...

So based on all of these findings, then I'd say that the cards are most certainly fakes...and I'd agree with Leon that they are "not even good fakes".. I, luckily, don't have too much money tied up in these, but my new mission is to find out if the auction company has a policy set in place for items later determined to be not authentic (since they advertised the items as being authentic)... Anyone have any experience or advice to share about this? Thanks! Marshall

[sycks22]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

I am not, nor will I ever be an expert of pre-war cards, because I have no interest in them..

So your name is vintagebaseballcardshop and run a store based on vintage cards, but have no interest in them or consider yourself an expert? What????? If I'm a BMW car salesman I better understand at least something about the car before I sell it to someone. You're contradicting yourself.

[jgmp123]

I'M A MAN, I'M 40.....



Just kidding...I am really 30....

[Beatles Guy]

I'm 37 now, but I've been collecting vintage since I was 12. Even then I knew a good thing when I saw it

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Same here.. I think you probably got a little jump on me though.. You probably started collecting before the overproduced hype? 1981 or 1982? I got in around 1986 and luckily was able to understand the whole supply and demand thing early on... I figured out that something wasn't right when I could buy a box of cards for $40, and then get lucky and pull the "it" card, which I could only sell for $15..So, I also went older! Vintage just has a great history to it.. I'd much rather have a nice vintage card any day (even at 12) than some hot new rookie!

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

I'm 37 now, but I've been collecting vintage since I was 12. Even then I knew a good thing when I saw it

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Within the site it states that specialize in post war cards to pre-1991, so yes, I admit, I am not in the know when it comes to T or W or etc. It takes years and years and years and years and years and years of devoted time to understand the complexity of that market, and unfortunately, I only have so much time to devote...Gotta give some to the wife and kids.. oh, and the job!

Originally Posted by sycks22

So your name is vintagebaseballcardshop and run a store based on vintage cards, but have no interest in them or consider yourself an expert? What????? If I'm a BMW car salesman I better understand at least something about the car before I sell it to someone. You're contradicting yourself.

[bigwinnerx]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

I can promise that I don't know of any others in their early 30's that are interested in vintage...

Wrong.

[4815162342]

Wow, I'm 31 and didn't know until today that I didn't exist.

[39special]

I know a couple people in my area that collect vintage that are under 30.
There are more out there then you think.

[UOFLfan7]

Originally Posted by 39special

I know a couple people in my area that collect vintage that are under 30.
There are more out there then you think.

I'm just turning 17 in Nov. and I love vintage cards haha. My friends don't understand, they think that vintage is the late 80's!

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by UOFLfan7

I'm just turning 17 in Nov. and I love vintage cards haha. My friends don't understand, they think that vintage is the late 80's!

what are you doing here on a prewar board at 17? go post on facebook or talk to girls...the fun stuff. these cards will always be available (old guys who collect them will eventually die and sell).

[UOFLfan7]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

what are you doing here on a prewar board at 17? go post on facebook or talk to girls...the fun stuff. these cards will always be available (old guys who collect them will eventually die and sell).

Haha, I love baseball cards, I do talk to girls, and I personally hate facebook. I have one, but I never get on it (Maybe once every month!). Anyways, baseball cards aren't only for old people, although I will admit that very few of my friends understand why I love collecting them so much. Heck even my parents don't understand why it is so hard for me to part with one of my baseball cards.

[vintagebaseballcardshop]

Happy Days! We found 2 others that collect! I think my point here is that if we don't figure out a way to branch out to the younger group, the vintage industry will inevitably die off...

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Wow, I'm 31 and didn't know until today that I didn't exist.

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

any confusion.. Just was looking for some opinions on the card, but apparently you were already fishin' in this pond! I'm probably the youngest guy on here admittedly.. and I am completely new to the online marketplace, so I am learning as I go... It's kind of a trial and error thing.. I promise that I mean no harm in anything that I do, and I most certainly have no malice intent.. I guess you kinda learn by learning what not to do.. I know one thing... I certainly cannot count on anyone helping me out on this forum, unless, of course, I do something that they don't agree with....I don't recall anyone taking this "new member" under their wing to teach me the ropes...If I may speak freely... I would have thought that a vintage site would encourage new membership.. I would have thought that they would be pleased when new collectors find the forum.. Who do you think is going to be buying all of these vintage cards in 20 to 30 years? I am not 70.. or 60.. or 50.....or 40.... I am barely 30... I can promise that I don't know of any others in their early 30's that are interested in vintage... I can certainly tell you that no one less than 30 is... They all want the guess... - Marshall

I would have to strongly disagree on this one... A lot of people under 30 collect vintage, including me since I'm less than half your age. A few of my friends love collecting old cards and learning the history of the game. And I know a few young people on freedom card board that like vintage.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardshop

Sorry man.. Didn't realize you were on this forum, and certainly didn't know that you had a post about that card already up! Didn't mean to create any confusion.. Just was looking for some opinions on the card, but apparently you were already fishin' in this pond! I'm probably the youngest guy on here admittedly.. and I am completely new to the online marketplace, so I am learning as I go... It's kind of a trial and error thing.. I promise that I mean no harm in anything that I do, and I most certainly have no malice intent.. I guess you kinda learn by learning what not to do.. I know one thing... I certainly cannot count on anyone helping me out on this forum, unless, of course, I do something that they don't agree with....I don't recall anyone taking this "new member" under their wing to teach me the ropes...If I may speak freely... I would have thought that a vintage site would encourage new membership.. I would have thought that they would be pleased when new collectors find the forum.. Who do you think is going to be buying all of these vintage cards in 20 to 30 years? I am not 70.. or 60.. or 50.....or 40.... I am barely 30... I can promise that I don't know of any others in their early 30's that are interested in vintage... I can certainly tell you that no one less than 30 is... They all want the 1/1's.. the "refractors" and "parallel's".. (whatever those are).. They aren't interested in vintage.. So you can alienate me, or anyone else that comes on here that "doesn't do things the way that they're suppose to be done".. but what you're really doing is pushing the young guns out that will be the future of this DYING industry.. My entire life, I have lived, eaten and breathed vintage baseball cards.. I have pictures up on my website from when I was a dealer at 12 years old... I hung out at local baseball card shops as much as mom would let me.. There is no possible way for me to have 50 years of collecting experience, but I believe, for my age, I know a lot.. I am trying here, and that ought to count for something...So, sorry, I guess... - Marshall

You tried selling a card that does not belong to you. That is always bad form. Take it on the chin and quit blaming everyone else. Guys will help you on here just be straight and honest and do not try to be tricky. They have seen most any trick or scheme you could think of.