Black Swamp Find?

[4815162342]

What is the Black Swamp Find?

[Tim Kindler]

I live in Northeast Indiana, and Northwest Ohio (about 30 minutes away) is known as the Great Black Swamp area from the time of the pioneers of our country when Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan were first settled. I haven't heard of a great find around here, but it would be pretty cool if there was one! Except for the fact that I didn't find it!

[4815162342]

See the link below for the item that mentions the "Black Swamp Find".

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...&lotIdNo=68001

[Scott L.]

Only a PSA 10 E98 Wagner. No big thing

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Only a PSA 10 E98 Wagner. No big thing

OMG! Wow, what a find. I wonder how many other cards are in this "Find???"

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

Only a PSA 10 E98 Wagner. No big thing

That's only part of the story.

An entire pristine E98 set was discovered. I think there was a PSA 9 Cobb in that set if I'm not mistaken.

This find has set the bar high, unreasonably high for those trying to build a high quality set. There were/are three cards from this find for sale on eBay. Two PSA 8s and a PSA 9(O/C).

[pencil1974]

I picked up this one up of the Black Swamp find! Very nice hate the way PSA put it in the holder though.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Tim Kindler

I live in Northeast Indiana, and Northwest Ohio (about 30 minutes away) is known as the Great Black Swamp area from the time of the pioneers of our country when Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan were first settled. I haven't heard of a great find around here, but it would be pretty cool if there was one! Except for the fact that I didn't find it!

The only reason that Wagner survived in "10" condition was that it was in a plastic holder when retrieved from the Black Swamp. Nice holder, but smells like swamp gas.

[darwinbulldog]

So if the staining on the back looks like a wet sheet transfer it isn't considered a stain? And what's the bit that looks like paper loss next to his knee?

[ullmandds]

Huh...nice card but psa 10? Looks like another psa inside job/blunder!?!?

It seems that psa's guidelines have changed...just discover the nicest known specimen of a card and it gets a gem mint 10. What nonsense.

[Matthew H]

I remember this find, I think. Wasn't there a bunch of other super high grade e98s? I believe this card already sold before, for a bit over 100k. I can't remember which auction it was.

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

So if the staining on the back looks like a wet sheet transfer it isn't considered a stain? And what's the bit that looks like paper loss next to his knee?

It's difficult to tell from the scan, but I believe the appearance of paper loss next to his knee is a flaw in the holder, not the card.

As to the original question, I have no idea what the Black Swamp find is.

[Jcfowler6]

Ummm wow!

[4815162342]

I think Andrew enjoys the "We open up your slab, let you fix flaws, then we reslab at a higher grade while you wait" service that SGC provides.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I think Andrew enjoys the "We open up your slab, let you fix flaws, then we reslab at a higher grade while you wait" service that SGC provides.

Well Daryl if you can provide proof of this accusation I would be more than happy to consider it against the many altered high grade PSA cards out there.

So what you are saying Glyn is that SGC is just like PSA. They cater to their high end dealers and cards, and assign false grades to the cards for those submitters to increase their profits but not SGC's. So they do the same thing as the Young collection, the McNall Wagner, the now graded PSA 10 Wagner, as well as an extremely high number of others.


I would love to start my own service

[Matthew H]

Andrew, there's a card slabber on eBay right now, only 3k

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Andrew, there's a card slabber on eBay right now, only 3k

Yeah but at this point I could use that towards the software program for the damn scanner I have been messing with for the last 5+ yrs(has been longer) for grading cards. The slab is another story. I wouldn't be able to use that machine anyways because they vibrate and can cause damage. Some day I will be able to have all the cards I want. Then I have to give them back to the guys that sent them to me

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Well Daryl if you can provide proof of this accusation I would be more than happy to consider it against the many altered high grade PSA cards out there.

I think Daryl is referring to this post on the board here where a mark was erased in front of SGC graders, and the card went from SGC 20 to SGC 40: Link

[pcoz]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think Daryl is referring to this post on the board here where a mark was erased in front of SGC graders, and the card went from SGC 20 to SGC 40: Link

That was my card and we beat this thing to death recently. Almost 90% had no problem and didn't consider that altering a card. As far as The Black Swamp Find, I think a PSA 10 for that card is a joke. SGC wouldn't grade that over an 8. 8.5 at best. It's a beautiful card, but no way a 10. I can tell you I have equally as many SGC as PSA cards, and there are some PSA 5's I have that would be SGC 40's. As it relates to my caramel collection, SGC is unquestionably more accurate and would love to see how they'd grade this "Find".

Removing a faint pencil mark is just like soaking paper off a card. Sounds like your argument is validated by a 90% margin saying it wasn't altering. That's was great customer service IMO.

[4815162342]

From the Heritage catalog (thanks to "mountaingirl" who notified me of this via PM):

"1910 E98 "Set of 30" Baseball Near Set (27/30) - The Best of the Black Swamp Find! Like the Phoenix rising from the flame fueled with new life, so too from an area in Ohio known as the Black Swamp arose a virtually pristine and untouched collection of century old E98 caramel baseball cards. The Black Swamp Find is a discovery that will never be equaled or surpassed in the hobby. This is the ultimate "attic find" we all dream of coming across. For 100 years, the cards were nestled under a treasured doll house, we thankfully say completely forgotten about. There have been and will always finds of old baseball cards that which have the same roster of baseball greats contained here but what will make the "Black Swamp" pedigree so famous is the condition. This is the "Mile High" collection in baseball card form. They are virtually untouched and by all account came directly from the printer to the meat market run by the grandparents of our consignor. If every portrait was cut to precision, this would be an entirely near-mint to gem-mint array. Of the 30 players from the E98 series the collection offered 25 players in duplicate, a trio represented by a single example and two players (Lajoie and Walsh) mysteriously not represented. Names found include the greatest of the game including Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Chief Bender, Christy Mathewson, and Connie Mack plus Chance, Jennings, Evers, Bresnahan, Young plus others. Ironically, the unknowns have proven to be harder to find than the greats. Player after player, card after card, each a precious relic that takes you back in time. Currently, the finest E98 set known on any registry has an impressive GPA equal to 5.75. Factoring the lone qualified card as a "4", this presentation earns an unheard of GPA of 7.9! It would be so easy to go on but we will allow the next thousand words to be the image presented to your right."

[E93]

Being that Heritage's website is unsearchable and the worst in the hobby, can anyone provide a link. I just spent ten minutes trying to find it on their website and came up blank.
Thanks,
JimB

[calvindog]

Yeah, I couldn't find it either. Jim and I have about 9 degrees between us -- if only we had that 10th we'd be able to use Heritage's damn site. Unreal. What is with Heritage?

[glchen]

Linky

[oldjudge]

Do the pop reports numbers listed in the lot description include all the cards from the find? It was my impression that there were a couple of dozen extremely high grade examples each for most of the cards in the set. In my opinion, it would be extremely disingenuous on Heritage's part if the figures did not include all the cards from the find.

[CW]

Originally Posted by glchen

Linky

Thanks for posting that.

Looking at those cards... wow! It's like going back in time....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yeah, I couldn't find it either. Jim and I have about 9 degrees between us -- if only we had that 10th we'd be able to use Heritage's damn site. Unreal. What is with Heritage?

Yes, 8 + 1 does equal 9.

[Tim Kindler]

Look everyone, before you kill me with responses...I'M NOT SAYING THESE E98s ARE FAKE....but no one has brought up the obvious question: Are these things really real. As much as some people hate TPG and PSA, I'm surprised no one has actually wondered in writing in this thread if they are indeed real. I've never posted in one of the many TPG or PSA bashing threads before (You can look it up!) so I have no grudge at all against PSA. I'm just simply finding all of these numerous 8s, 9s, and 10s hard to believe from E98s all of a sudden coming out of the woodwork. I would be lying if I said I didn't have my doubts just how old these E98s really are, even though I have absolutely no evidence to back up my suspicions other than TPG do make mistakes.
Tim Kindler

[4815162342]

They look real to me. Did the graders get a little 9 and 10 happy? Sure. Wouldn't you if you went from grading your 10,000th '89 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. rookie card to grading a high stack of near-perfect E98s?

[Tim Kindler]

I guess what I was trying to get at is what Barry just said. I really have no reason to think that these are not real, but I guess I'm just a cynical person when it comes to believing in things that just seem too good to be true. This find just seems too good to be true, but cotton candy is, so I guess these are too!

[oldjudge]

Jim--Beautiful uncut panels

[pcoz]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Jim--Beautiful uncut panels

+1 Jim, beautiful!!

Regarding the Black Swamp cards....I wish PSA would update their pop report to give a true reading on how many cards were actually found. I'm still in amazement over the find and how sharp the cards are. It's nice to see the caramels get some attention.

[Matthew H]

I heard 600 had old put backs. Jk

Jim B = bad-a**!

[atx840]

Bummer tbob, I'm still new to collecting and not sure what affect a game changer find like this will have long term on the set....it does however peak my interest in the set.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

What is the Black Swamp Find?

I asked the board this simple question one year ago today. Soon it was on every news outlet. A member of the family joined the board, and began to communicate with me via PM about the family's experience. The cards were on prominent display at the National, and Peter Calderon from Heritage told the behind-the-scenes story at the Net54 dinner. I doubt there will ever be another find of this caliber in our lifetime.

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I doubt there will ever be another find of this caliber in our lifetime.

I hope you are wrong!