Black Swamp Find?

[darwinbulldog]

So if the staining on the back looks like a wet sheet transfer it isn't considered a stain? And what's the bit that looks like paper loss next to his knee?

[ullmandds]

Huh...nice card but psa 10? Looks like another psa inside job/blunder!?!?

It seems that psa's guidelines have changed...just discover the nicest known specimen of a card and it gets a gem mint 10. What nonsense.

[Matthew H]

I remember this find, I think. Wasn't there a bunch of other super high grade e98s? I believe this card already sold before, for a bit over 100k. I can't remember which auction it was.

[CW]

While this card is so high end it's almost breathtaking, I'd have to agree that the surface issues (front & back) should prevent it from being a "10".

[botn]

Yeah assuming it is not altered, nice card but not a 10 for the reasons pointed out...maybe not even an 8, technically. But it says 10 so it shall bring 10 money.

Just blew up the scan and it appears 3 corners have wear. One of the spots maybe the holder but there are two other spots missing red ink. Not a 10. Nice card but not a 10.

[barrysloate]

Why is it graded a 10- a grade that is literally off the charts for a caramel card- when it clearly isn't a 10? And as mentioned, of course it will achieve a 10 price which is likely to be well into six figures. Don't get it. What does it take to assign the proper grade to a card?

Edited to add it's a beautiful card with huge well centered borders, but it has other technical issues.

[Anthony S.]

http://www.manta.com/c/mry0zgl/black...creen-printing

[E93]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I remember this find, I think. Wasn't there a bunch of other super high grade e98s? I believe this card already sold before, for a bit over 100k. I can't remember which auction it was.

You are thinking of an E93 find where a PSA 9 Wagner sold for over 230k.
JimB

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by E93

You are thinking of an E93 find where a PSA 9 Wagner sold for over 230k.
JimB

Thanks Jim, my memory was wayy off

It's funny how many times a month PSA is getting bashed for being the idiots they are, yet we still have big supporters here that are PSA all the way. I guess their collection is valued in plastic and not in cards Whats the difference between them and GAI. Mike was just not big enough to survive the ordeal is all.

I think the Wagner should be bought and then graded by SGC and then have those dipsh!ts at PSA pay the hefty sum of the difference for their ignorance and stupidity. I think if thats a spot of paper loss on the front its a 1-3 at best. Far cry shy of a 10 in any matter though

[Matthew H]

Andrew you think that card my be in poor condition? Eek.

[peterose4hof]

Lionel Carter collection is fine. Dmitri Young collection is pushing it. Black Swamp Find is over the edge. If noone on this forum has heard of it there's no way it should be listed on a PSA Label.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Andrew you think that card my be in poor condition? Eek.

I think he means technically, if there was paper loss, then it should technically be graded 1-3.

Regardless of the # on the holder, if a person buys the card (and not the holder - whether its a 1 or a 10) it will fetch big bucks IMO. Beautiful card!

Rob

[steve B]

I looked at the huge scans. If you haven't looked at those you should.

The white spot near his knee looks more like some lint in the holder.
The corners do show just the slightest wear. I only figured two, but won't argue if someone else sees three.
The marking on the back is an offset transfer, both red and brown. (And if it's from storage there might be another wagner just as nice!)
What looks like a scratch on the knee at the right I think is on the holder.
The white dot at the lower right and the one at the top center are too small to tell even from the huge scan. They're probably just print defects. If they're paper loss then things are very different.
The red is off register slightly low and left.

I don't think I'd be as harsh as calling it a 1-3, even if the two tiny spots are missing paper. Maybe a 4.

If they're just print defects, I'd be thinking more like 9-9.5, far from perfect with 4-5 trivial defects, but still extremely nice.

And still way more than I could afford, probably more than my house
Steve B

[glchen]

Originally Posted by E93

You are thinking of an E93 find where a PSA 9 Wagner sold for over 230k.
JimB

This E93 Wagner in SGC 88/8 went for a "mere" 16.5K in the recently concluded Goodwin auction: Link

Funny thing is that if you look at the PSA pop report for the E98 Wagner from Heritage, the cert #19871751 is still not viewable. Also, the PSA pop report currently doesn't show any 10's for the E98's. Of course, it's very possible that PSA has not yet updated it's pop database yet.

Ok so looking at the bottom left corner by the knee is a bad spot. Is that a print defect or paper loss?

Also the 1-3 grade range falls correctly based on their scale not mine. We have seen some sharp cards with minor loss take a 1 grade. It's because it's Wagner on the card is the only reason that card graded that and PSA is a joke anyways. If this was a common do you think it would have gotten a 10? This is a joke and anyone that puts value in their grading is an idiot. Come on guys look at their track record. Just about every high end, high graded card that gets posted on this board by PSA is under speculation for over grading and alterations. I have more trust in Global than PSA. JMO

[pcoz]

That card is stunning. But, not a 10. In looking at a couple of corners(back bottom left in particular), I'd knock it down a notch, but not much. I'd give it an 8.5 if not a 9. Registration is off marginally as well, but I'm splitting hairs. Being an E card guy I can't think of one I've seen any nicer. Beauty!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Ok so looking at the bottom left corner by the knee is a bad spot. Is that a print defect or paper loss?

Also the 1-3 grade range falls correctly based on their scale not mine. We have seen some sharp cards with minor loss take a 1 grade. It's because it's Wagner on the card is the only reason that card graded that and PSA is a joke anyways. If this was a common do you think it would have gotten a 10? This is a joke and anyone that puts value in their grading is an idiot. Come on guys look at their track record. Just about every high end, high graded card that gets posted on this board by PSA is under speculation for over grading and alterations. I have more trust in Global than PSA. JMO

I think the area you're mentioning is actually lint or something inside the slab. If it's not then you've got an excellent point.

I don't think it's worthy of a 10, but I'd have a tough time giving it a 1.

Steve B

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by glchen

This E93 Wagner in SGC 88/8 went for a "mere" 16.5K in the recently concluded Goodwin auction: Link

Funny thing is that if you look at the PSA pop report for the E98 Wagner from Heritage, the cert #19871751 is still not viewable. Also, the PSA pop report currently doesn't show any 10's for the E98's. Of course, it's very possible that PSA has not yet updated it's pop database yet.

Doesn't the database get updated immediately when the grade is entered?
I would think in that environment, a real time update is likely with their software.

[glynparson]

yeah right not on a big time submitters invoice, they have a large submitter that would NEVER use them if he received the same grades you or i do. Not to mention the fact that hey let their friends go right into the grading room and argue over grades with them. Obviously they know who's card it is then. Just sit in front of their booth at the national and you will see some of their friends blatantly walk right into the grading room. I have not seen this at PSA, again I feel their are plenty of PSA screw ups I JUST DONT SEE THE PERCENTAGE AS ANY DIFFERENT FROM sgc TO psa. Remeber PSA has graded many many multiples of cards compared to SGC. So of course in sheer numbers there are more PSA screw ups than SGC. I just feel the majority of pSA screw ups are due to incompetence I wish I felt the same about the other guys.

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

So if the staining on the back looks like a wet sheet transfer it isn't considered a stain? And what's the bit that looks like paper loss next to his knee?

It's difficult to tell from the scan, but I believe the appearance of paper loss next to his knee is a flaw in the holder, not the card.

As to the original question, I have no idea what the Black Swamp find is.