David Hall talks about The Wagner

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Can't speculate as to the former, but res ip on the latter.

C'mon, Leon, regardless of your views on O'Keeffe, give your devil his due: he was right that The Card has been doctored. Please don't fall in with the fantasists who still defend 'The Card' even after the guy who cut it up admitted that he cut it up. Don't sit with Linus waiting for The Great Pumpkin. You'll miss tricks or treats.

Where did I say it's unaltered? It is altered. I just said I don't think the grader knew it at the time.
I said Okeefe isn't a good reporter, imo. And that is due to how he reported something about me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

I saw the card in Anaheim around 2005 or so, whenever the last National was there. My first thoughts were, 1. This card is obviously trimmed. 2. It is WAY more obvious in person than in any photo or scan I had seen.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

I haven't seen the card in person. You might be right.
The only thing I am real sure of is that my 5 dogs and 2 fosters need to be fed and taken care of today. That I am sure of. The rest is always a little bit fuzzy. Is that called plausible deniability?
.

[ruth-gehrig]

Regraded today what is it getting?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Regraded today what is it getting?

It won't be, so the question is moot.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

It won't be, so the question is moot.

I think it's called speculation and it's a valid question.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

I think it's called speculation and it's a valid question.

As long as we're speculating, what are the odds that they won't recognize that it's the same one that they graded at cert 00000001?

If your question is based on a fantasyland where it gets regraded, and where it's not identified as having been previously graded, and they really look at it fresh without any preconceived notions, then it seems likely that it would get the AA grade.

But that requires us to suspend a whole lot of belief to get there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Regraded today what is it getting?

AUTH first because it's sheet cut and second because from there it was trimmed. That said, they would know it's the same card and stubbornly stick it in an 8 holder again.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

AUTH first because it's sheet cut and second because from there it was trimmed. That said, they would know it's the same card and stubbornly stick it in an 8 holder again.

Absolutely agree! No way it would ever be downgraded to what it actually is.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Absolutely agree! No way it would ever be downgraded to what it actually is.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

AUTH first because it's sheet cut and second because from there it was trimmed. That said, they would know it's the same card and stubbornly stick it in an 8 holder again.

After Mastro admitted the card was trimmed, during the National PSA luncheon, David Hall said that he called Ken Kendrick about the PSA guarantee, and that Kendrick refused. He mentioned this again during the video above.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

You suddenly reminded me of Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen buying Charlie Sheen's stolen T206 Wagner for $13k, and then telling the FBI that he didn't know it was hot! That's what this feels like here, and appears that David Hall, or even PSA is trying to reinvent themselves - or at the very least, trying to fool a new generation of collectors that - "There's nothing to see here folks, move along" Frank Drebin style!

[jchcollins]

Deleting due to factual error in what I assumed and said...

[raulus]

Originally Posted by topcat61

You suddenly reminded me of Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen buying Charlie Sheen's stolen T206 Wagner for $13k, and then telling the FBI that he didn't know it was hot! That's what this feels like here, and appears that David Hall, or even PSA is trying to reinvent themselves - or at the very least, trying to fool a new generation of collectors that - "There's nothing to see here folks, move along" Frank Drebin style!

Move along!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

What year was any Wagner last $13K? Not at any time when Sheen was buying!

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

What year was any Wagner last $13K? Not at any time when Sheen was buying!

No, you'd have to go back to 1985 for a 13k T206 Wagner. That's the price Rosen paid for Sheen's lifted Wagner at the All-Star Cafe. I forgot the date of that theft. Since Rosen is dead now, he cant threaten to sue me