Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

[Belfast1933]

Amazing to me how people here dance around with accusatory “questions” that take veiled shots at a well respected dealer who was massively victimized here.

Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

Ashsh is a great guy, a respected dealer and deserves the benefit of the doubt - so sorry to see this news, Ashsh. And I hope you never any of these jagoff comments that imply anything other than empathy for what happened

Hang in there, bud. Hoping for a surprise good outcome here 🤞

[brunswickreeves]

Just a heartbreaking story and hope they catch the group asap.

In the meantime maybe something for the hobby as a whole to rally around and take precautionary measures like using available location identification tech such as placing Apple Air Tags in card carrying cases or even somehow affix to a secondary case holder for expensive graded cards, so dealer/authorities can immediately see where their inventory is moving about.

[ALBB]

Id like to see the video ..dont have facebook chat book, etc,

might help if thousands of Net folks could see it

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Id like to see the video ..dont have facebook chat book, etc,

might help if thousands of Net folks could see it

Ash posted on Twitter

https://x.com/cardzzzzz4u/status/181...864797129?s=46

[ncinin]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

This is during breakdown not set up. Thus, you don't need a badge at that point to be in the room.

And breaking down the tables is the most dangerous time at a show for the reason I just noted. At least during set-up with badges being hopefully monitored you have a chance of knowing who is in the room. During close out, anyone who paid admission or even comes in for the last hour or so is in the room.

Regards
Rich

At large shows you do need a badge to be in the room after the show is over.

Announcements are made at Philly and Chantilly for customers to finish deals and leave. Paul (in charge of the room at those shows) has made a point, especially at Philly, that badges are needed at shows end, even on Sunday.

At the March/November Chicago shows I wait for the rush of dealers to leave before I walk across the street to retrieve my van and drive over to load out in order to get a close parking spot to load out. I had people asked to leave that were loitering around the show after it is over.

[Rich Klein]

[QUOTE=ncinin;2446309]At large shows you do need a badge to be in the room after the show is over.

Announcements are made at Philly and Chantilly for customers to finish deals and leave. Paul (in charge of the room at those shows) has made a point, especially at Philly, that badges are needed at shows end, even on Sunday.

At the March/November Chicago shows I wait for the rush of dealers to leave before I walk across the street to retrieve my van and drive over to load out in order to get a close parking spot to load out. I had people asked to leave that were loitering around the show after it is over.[/QU

As large as the NSCC is, you would need more than just Paul to enforce any badges at the end of the show. And as you pointed out, you wait for the hordes to leave before getting your car. I realize the safety issue, but at some point this is just not enforceable because of the mammoth size of the NSCC.

I personally think there will be some effects from the badge reductions and the answer will not be a happy one for many dealers. I would want to have someone with me at the NSCC just to watch my table/booth and not be a lone wolf leaving especially is my material is as good as the person's who suffered that terrible loss.

I also think there will be a reduction in dealer to dealer sales on Tuesday which for many dealers makes their whole show. Alsso, the extra badge at the NSCC would get me more backup as the two most dangerous times at a show for vendors are load-in and break down.

I have said this on webcasts and I have a ton of respect for the promotion skills of Joe, Jimmy and their teams but I think this wholesale reduction of badges is a mistake and there are probably better ways around this

Rich

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by EddieP

The thieves knew what they were doing. If you ever travel abroad or even in a big US city you should be aware that thieves/pickpockets work in groups. There’s the distractor(s), the klepto and the lookout(s). You have to be wary about the most normal looking person.

If I travelled shows selling cards like this there would be a retired cop at my right hand. He would know zero about cards, would not be chatting with anyone, and would watch my stuff like a hawk. Never let cases, boxes, etc out of his sight. Sure it would be $200 well spent. Just the sign of him would be enough to send most bad guys in another direction. In NJ where I live you could even hire an active officer on his day off. My assistants would not be kids.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

As large as the NSCC is, you would need more than just Paul to enforce any badges at the end of the show. And as you pointed out, you wait for the hordes to leave before getting your car. I realize the safety issue, but at some point this is just not enforceable because of the mammoth size of the NSCC.

I personally think there will be some effects from the badge reductions and the answer will not be a happy one for many dealers. I would want to have someone with me at the NSCC just to watch my table/booth and not be a lone wolf leaving especially is my material is as good as the person's who suffered that terrible loss.

I also think there will be a reduction in dealer to dealer sales on Tuesday which for many dealers makes their whole show. Alsso, the extra badge at the NSCC would get me more backup as the two most dangerous times at a show for vendors are load-in and break down.

I have said this on webcasts and I have a ton of respect for the promotion skills of Joe, Jimmy and their teams but I think this wholesale reduction of badges is a mistake and there are probably better ways around this

Rich

While I appreciate the sentiment, we still get two badges per booth. it's not like we're being asked to do the show solo and hope our neighbors are willing to keep an eye on things if necessary.

[sb1]

There were uniformed police officers walking the aisles and very visible throughout the entire show as well as a new group of uniformed expo service staff constantly patrolling the aisles during the show. However once the show was winding down, they were no where to be seen, at one of the most crucial times for potential theft..

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I travelled shows selling cards like this there would be a retired cop at my right hand. He would know zero about cards, would not be chatting with anyone, and would watch my stuff like a hawk. Never let cases, boxes, etc out of his sight. Sure it would be $200 well spent. Just the sign of him would be enough to send most bad guys in another direction. In NJ where I live you could even hire an active officer on his day off. My assistants would not be kids.

Those young men work his tables at every show and are very knowledgeable and responsible, they simply/unfortunately got worked by professionals..

I am sure having their packed items taken was the last thing on their mind, despite knowing to always be on the lookout for thieves during the show, when the card swappers and distracters normally try to take advantage of a busied employee.

As others have stated Ash is a great guy, well respected and trusted. You could leave your house keys or wallet with him and everything would be exactly as your left it. He certainly did not deserve this(nor does anyone), I think the thieves had likely scoped him out for some time and were aware of the lack of people in the booth and the absence of other people in the venue at this time of the shows as a rule and new that there would be opportunity.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sb1

Those young men work his tables at every show and are very knowledgeable and responsible, they simply/unfortunately got worked by professionals..

I am sure having their packed items taken was the last thing on their mind, despite knowing to always be on the lookout for thieves during the show, when the card swappers and distracters normally try to take advantage of a busied employee.

As others have stated Ash is a great guy, well respected and trusted. You could leave your house keys or wallet with him and everything would be exactly as your left it. He certainly did not deserve this(nor does anyone), I think the thieves had likely scoped him out for some time and were aware of the lack of people in the booth and the absence of other people in the venue at this time of the shows as a rule and new that there would be opportunity.

All very true. I have spoken with Ash several times. He's a great guy, super nice dealer.
I agree with the comment about members talking about his prices too. They are marked high but he will deal on just about anything. This is not the time to talk about someone's selling skills. It's time to talk about who the perps are. A really nice guy got robbed.
And his son I usually talk with is one of the nicest young guys in the room too.
.

[Kutcher55]

This has all the makings of a national news story. Brazen midday heist of 7-figures worth of collectables. I think some planning definitely went into this, but it remains to be seen just how "professional" these thieves are. Stealing the cards is one thing, but fencing them is a whole nother matter.

Unless they were wearing special facial disguises they will get made in very little time. Because of the size of the heist, police will take interest, as will of course the insurance company as I doubt these cards weren't insured.

There will be other video, outside the venue. It's possible we could have names really soon. I believe they will be apprehended in short order.

No knock on Ash who I have done deals with and is a complete gentleman, but you probably need to keep a closer eye on inventory of that value.

[chalupacollects]

Hopefully the local PD can get cell tower pings and maybe narrow down the suspect count if these guys were communicating via cell… tie the video to the pings..


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[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I travelled shows selling cards like this there would be a retired cop at my right hand. He would know zero about cards, would not be chatting with anyone, and would watch my stuff like a hawk. Never let cases, boxes, etc out of his sight. Sure it would be $200 well spent. Just the sign of him would be enough to send most bad guys in another direction. In NJ where I live you could even hire an active officer on his day off. My assistants would not be kids.

Agree. I'd have the hired person (it could even be a family relative or close friend) actually physically holding the expensive cases, boxes, etc,...even sitting on the floor with them.

[StraightRaceCards]

Originally Posted by Leon

All very true. I have spoken with Ash several times. He's a great guy, super nice dealer.
I agree with the comment about members talking about his prices too. They are marked high but he will deal on just about anything. This is not the time to talk about someone's selling skills. It's time to talk about who the perps are. A really nice guy got robbed.
And his son I usually talk with is one of the nicest young guys in the room too.
.

+1

I agree, I’ve talked to him a couple of times at the Dallas show and have had nothing but positive interactions with him.

Hate for the good guys in the hobby to be robbed, will be on the lookout for any of these unique cards

[JustinD]

Not purposefully trying to be judgy, however the thief sure fits the awkwardly dressed card show profile. I am betting he is a collector and someone likely knows this guy in the modern community.

If the other three are involved or he just took advantage of the situation of them for a distraction is up to the police to decide. However, they look like plenty of trade night attendees as well. I think someone will step forward and id someone.

I can't stand the guy, but it might be good to get this film into Geoff Wilson's hands and he may put it in a video. If they are modern collectors, he has the reach on youtube.

I saw this morning you have TikTok covered because Coach Koe already has a post. He has a huge reach on there.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If there's any upside, it's that Ash is getting a lot of free positive character references and advertising.

[SyrNy1960]

Hate to see that this has happened again. Hope they are caught and all cards are recovered.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Agree. I'd have the hired person (it could even be a family relative or close friend) actually physically holding the expensive cases, boxes, etc,...even sitting on the floor with them.

"As we are packing up . . .that box right there with the 2 million dollars worth of cards in it . . . . that sits on your lap and never leaves. . . . I don't care if the leader of the free world walks by and drops to the floor in front of us . . . . ."

Seems like the breaking down period at these shows in the most dangerous time for organized theft

[Hankphenom]

That video is amazing, a virtual training film for cops, thieves, and dealers. Thank goodness the camera was on and working, I'm guessing they will catch these guys because of it. And how many dealers with similar inventories have such up to date photos of their cards for insurance purposes and lookouts for attempted fencing? Not many, I'll bet. So Ash seems well positioned for a positive ending to this story--I certainly hope so. But without wanting to blame the victim here, and with 20 years of doing shows in my past, it's inconceivable to me that anyone would place that suitcase on the floor and so close to an aisle and walk away without designating a helper to sit with it until it was time to fill the display cases. Yes, the young guys shouldn't have allowed themselves to get distracted so easily, but it's on the owner of that suitcase to assure its safety at all times.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Leon

All very true. I have spoken with Ash several times. He's a great guy, super nice dealer.
I agree with the comment about members talking about his prices too. They are marked high but he will deal on just about anything. This is not the time to talk about someone's selling skills. It's time to talk about who the perps are. A really nice guy got robbed.
And his son I usually talk with is one of the nicest young guys in the room too.
.

Get some perspective, it's not like someone was murdered for his cards. A bunch of stuff was stolen. Stuff. People will have whatever thoughts and observations they have about whatever is shown as part of the story...and they will share some of those on a discussion forum. The thought-police can turn in their badges and pat themselves on the back for a job well-attempted.

I feel really bad for the kids, I'm sure they feel terrible and don't really know how to process it all. Adults are adults, and have to deal with their own stuff and I'm sure he will. I certainly hope all the cards are returned and everyone appropriately punished.

People are inherently distractible no matter how vigilant they may try to be or may think they are being. This will probably lead to people rethinking how they secure cards at different stages of a show, so that's probably a good discussion to come of it all.




.

[raulus]

What’s the penalty for this type of heist these days? 10-20 years?

[1954 topps]

I’m hoping when these guys are caught and they absolutely will be are made an example of. Serious jail time.

Occasional I bring inventory and cash to shows worth way more than I’d hate to have stolen. It certainly gives me an uneasy feeling. I’m sure others can relate.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by raulus

What’s the penalty for this type of heist these days? 10-20 years?

Just sayin'...

[packs]

This really sucks. Do any of you guys setting up at shows use air tags or something similar for your own cases? I was wondering if the hobby has adopted them or similar devices.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Just sayin'...

The first 10 hits should have been to the head. Then they won't do it again!
.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

This really sucks. Do any of you guys setting up at shows use air tags or something similar for your own cases? I was wondering if the hobby has adopted them or similar devices.

I don't sell at shows, but I stick air tags in anything of great value or of importance not to be stolen or where tracking would be helpful. The batteries last like a year and they are pretty cheap and small. They have stood up to more than I expected they would, pretty durable. This is a great recommendation for anything of large value.

[BioCRN]

Unlike the opportunistic hotel heist that happened recently, hopefully these guys will get snagged soon.

They most likely have more knowledge of flipping this stuff compared to the hotel kids which means they're more likely to break the cards out of their slabs and alter them to hide their identity.

That said, there's good video and many eye witnesses given how long they hung around the venue waiting to strike.

It seems they're destined to be caught, but hopefully before they crack slabs. Hell, hopefully they're more ignorant of what they had than it seems, but that seems like a longshot.

[Orioles1954]

I owned that EPDG Cobb over a decade ago. Sad sad story.

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

He is not a collector but a seasoned dealer, it would seem.

What are you the grammar police? LoL. I know he was a dealer, but my post script was meant for the collectors on this board.

My sister in law actually handcuffs her cash box to the table when she sells products at the local farmers market. Smart

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by raulus

What’s the penalty for this type of heist these days? 10-20 years?

Depends… red city 10-20 years, blue city an appearance ticket and BK coupons…


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[jbsports33]

We have multiple shows in New England and will be looking out and will let others know as well. These are all extremely high-end cards, so these will be hard to hide if these thieves are stupid enough to try and sell them, sorry this happened. We had a complete 1953 Topps binder stolen from us and had other issues over the years – sometimes it’s hard to swallow. Hang in there and good luck to you and your family – your sons must feel the pain too. These thieves work together and after a show or before one can be hard to watch it all. We had multiple tables at one time, sometimes cutting down how many tables or what you bring is the best defense.

Take care Jimmy

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Agree. I'd have the hired person (it could even be a family relative or close friend) actually physically holding the expensive cases, boxes, etc,...even sitting on the floor with them.

with the value of so many of the cards that is a good idea.
Scary how it happened and how organized and prepared they seemed to be

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Depends… red city 10-20 years, blue city an appearance ticket and BK coupons…


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Haha

[samosa4u]

Last week, I decided to ride my nice red CCM bike to the post office (to mail out some cards). When I got there, I leaned it against the store window and went inside. I had to use the washroom, but I made it quick. And I decided to come out of the washroom while I was rubbing soap on my hands, so I could keep my eye on my bike. In short, I took my eye off my bike for maybe 30 seconds (I made myself pee hard and fast!) Why? Because I didn't want someone to ride off with it. I was very, very careful.

So when I read about massive thefts like this, then I just ... don't ... get it ...

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

with the value of so many of the cards that is a good idea.
Scary how it happened and how organized and prepared they seemed to be

Must not know about surveillance cameras!!

I would not give them too much credit. They will be in jail within a couple of days if not sooner.

Now they may have destroyed the cards by then but they will not get away with this heist.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Depends… red city 10-20 years, blue city an appearance ticket and BK coupons…


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[vintagerookies51]

Obviously very unfortunate and I hope the cards are recovered, thieves are punished, etc...

But after the Memory Lane incident and now this, is it that common to just deal with this amount of $$ so carelessly? Hindsight is 20/20, but if I'm carrying around anything close to that amount of value, I'm hiding an AirTag in it at the very least.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Last week, I decided to ride my nice red CCM bike to the post office (to mail out some cards). When I got there, I leaned it against the store window and went inside. I had to use the washroom, but I made it quick. And I decided to come out of the washroom while I was rubbing soap on my hands, so I could keep my eye on my bike. In short, I took my eye off my bike for maybe 30 seconds (I made myself pee hard and fast!) Why? Because I didn't want someone to ride off with it. I was very, very careful.

So when I read about massive thefts like this, then I just ... don't ... get it ...

If you had really been careful, you would have locked up the bike. It sounds like maybe you were more lucky than careful since you left it out in the open where anyone happening by could have taken it. The card theft occurred inside where there were a limited number of people who the dealer probably assumed were all supposed to be there. While it's easy to look at what happened and point out how they could have done things differently that might have avoided the theft, they didn't just leave the case out in the open with no one around.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Depends… red city 10-20 years, blue city an appearance ticket and BK coupons…


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Is there ever an active discussion on here that doesn't devolve into political horseshit?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

Obviously very unfortunate and I hope the cards are recovered, thieves are punished, etc...

But after the Memory Lane incident and now this, is it that common to just deal with this amount of $$ so carelessly? Hindsight is 20/20, but if I'm carrying around anything close to that amount of value, I'm hiding an AirTag in it at the very least.

An AirTag only helps if the thief keeps the cards in the original case. Since it looks like these guys had this planned out, there's a reasonable chance that soon after getting out of the hall, they moved the cards into something else and ditched the original case and any AirTag it might have had in it.

[Yoda]

As Scott said, there were no uniformed police in evidence during breakup which could open the venue to potential liability for failure to provide proper security throughout the whole show, including breakup, assuming a contractual obligation.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by jayshum

An AirTag only helps if the thief keeps the cards in the original case. Since it looks like these guys had this planned out, there's a reasonable chance that soon after getting out of the hall, they moved the cards into something else and ditched the original case and any AirTag it might have had in it.

I recommended using Air Tags back in post #52 and to expand on the rationale, a dealer would be able to identify its last location, enabling review of surveillance video in proximity (eg from exterior of a bank/store/traffic light) to ID a car or individuals in it. It would also put authorities on a directional path for higher probable recovery.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

I recommended using Air Tags back in post #52 and to expand on the rationale, a dealer would be able to identify its last location, enabling review of surveillance video in proximity (eg from exterior of a bank/store/traffic light) to ID a car or individuals in it. It would also put authorities on a directional path for higher probable recovery.

I'm not saying AirTags are a bad idea, it's just that they only work for as long as they are with the stolen items which may not be very long if the thief is smart enough to realize they may be there. Having them would certainly be potentially better than not having them, but there's no guarantee they will provide as much information as you are suggesting.

[Eric72]

How long before the TPGs embed air tags (or RFID, etc.) in their slabs?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Eric72

How long before the TPGs embed air tags (or RFID, etc.) in their slabs?

…and make sure thieves can’t render them useless with a strong magnet?

[brian1961]

At this point, I think some of you are giving too much advice to the crook(s).

Down the way, I think a 21st (and a half?!?) century primer for dealers and collectors taking their collection to a show would be beneficial, for sure.

--- Brian Powell

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I'm not saying AirTags are a bad idea, it's just that they only work for as long as they are with the stolen items which may not be very long if the thief is smart enough to realize they may be there. Having them would certainly be potentially better than not having them, but there's no guarantee they will provide as much information as you are suggesting.

That's why I said "at the very least". I agree it probably wouldn't be enough and it would probably be wise to hire more stringent security or something.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by jayshum

If you had really been careful, you would have locked up the bike. It sounds like maybe you were more lucky than careful since you left it out in the open where anyone happening by could have taken it. The card theft occurred inside where there were a limited number of people who the dealer probably assumed were all supposed to be there. While it's easy to look at what happened and point out how they could have done things differently that might have avoided the theft, they didn't just leave the case out in the open with no one around.

You totally failed to see my point ...

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

You totally failed to see my point ...

Ok, maybe you should explain it then because after rereading your post several times, I still don't get what your hidden meaning is.