The Authenticator Strikes Again

[Peter_Spaeth]

This time, for the second time in my experience, they have rejected an SGC card claiming the slab was scratched. I am a fanatic about slabs and like any of my prior generation SGC slabs that I did not send off to be reholdered, this one was very nice, easily top 10 percent condition wise. So stupidly wasteful. If I didn't know better I would think PSA was biased even with their evaluator hat on.

[JimC]

You know better???

[Leon]

So they reject for a scratched slab, LOL?
.

[Snowman]

It's pretty easy to polish out scratches on plastic slabs. Seems rather silly

[G1911]

I hope this program dies or they let me sign a waiver opting out of it or similar, but I have not had anything rejected for being scratched. I've got some less than nice SGC slabs (which I cut open and destroy upon receipt). If what everyone I've talked to says is true, then PSA is really inconsistent about what they are doing with this program, which doesn't surprise. PSA authenticating SGC slabs is wild.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's pretty easy to polish out scratches on plastic slabs. Seems rather silly

Especially SGC, they scratch if you breathe on them. This was absurd.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

So they reject for a barely scratched slab, LOL?
.

Fixed it for you.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by G1911

I hope this program dies or they let me sign a waiver opting out of it or similar, but I have not had anything rejected for being scratched. I've got some less than nice SGC slabs (which I cut open and destroy upon receipt). If what everyone I've talked to says is true, then PSA is really inconsistent about what they are doing with this program, which doesn't surprise. PSA authenticating SGC slabs is wild.

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

[raulus]

The concept of the authentication process seems sound. Obviously this outcome is a complete bastardization of that concept.

Peter - Just out of curiosity, what kind of volume do you have on eBay that is subject to the AG? Do you sell 1 piece per year, so they're basically hitting you every time? Or are you selling 1,000 items per day, so they only bounce you out 0.01% of the time?

Just trying to get a better handle on the stupidity rate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

The concept of the authentication process seems sound. Obviously this outcome is a complete bastardization of that concept.

Peter - Just out of curiosity, what kind of volume do you have on eBay that is subject to the AG? Do you sell 1 piece per year, so they're basically hitting you every time? Or are you selling 1,000 items per day, so they only bounce you out 0.01% of the time?

Just trying to get a better handle on the stupidity rate.

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

[Snapolit1]

Authentication and grading feeds an egotistic, OCD, selfish urge among many collectors to have the best judged version of something. As a collector, I love the rush of having the highest graded or a very highly graded anything. The idea that my card is a 1 or 1 or one of the nicest 10 or 20 or 50 of something is a real turn on, pardon the terminology, to me as a collector. Shallow? I am sure many would say so. Different strokes for different folks as they say. I have ungraded. I have beaters. And I have 1 of 1s and 1 of 3s. There is no way the unslabbed beater is as cool to me as the stunning 1 of 1 or 1 of 3. Sorry. That's what museums are for. The best existing version of something.

Not an argument for altering cards. . . .

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

I guess we should applaud them for their sudden desire to enforce standards and attention to detail, and respectfully request that they apply that same diligent and watchful eye to their primary service, and not just to this random sideline endeavor.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

As with any widespread program used many thousands of times, I am sure there are numerous individual occasions it will prove useful. I have no doubt it will save people who have done no research into what a real card looks like especially. This particular scenario though is covered under the prior eBay policy anyways; I have always been refunded at the 30 day mark by eBay when the seller has not actually had the item (or refused to ship) under that policy.

I am not a fan of PSA being able to unilaterally veto a deal following the rules of the hosting platform, and myself and the seller have both consented to and are doing of our own volition for almost any reason PSA or CSG decides. I collect a lot of obscure cards that aren't baseball; so a high percentage of things I buy are technically described or listed on. So far the saving grace for me is that PSA/CSG doesn't understand them either to know it was described wrong. A scratch on the holder, small damage on a rare card I don't care about and saw in the picture, there are way too many ways for PSA/CSG to kill a deal I as the buyer have consented to do and want the card anyways. Some people have reported PSA has reached out to them about an issue before killing their deal; other deals they just kill unilaterally and ignore what the two people want. It's moved a lot of my insignificant plebe money off of eBay because the platform is becoming increasingly unreliable and I'm tired of the 'will I get my card or not' game.

If eBay actually banned scammers and cracked down instead of arranging junk programs like this to dance around the actual root problem, it would be a much better platform.

[ullmandds]

they're puttin' the SQUEEZE...on SGC.

[raulus]

Greg - just out of curiosity, have you ever had a deal killed like this by the AG process?

I’ve had two deals flagged by the AG process, at which point they emailed me and asked if I still wanted the item. In one case, the case had cracked completely open, and I decided against buying it. In the other case, the raw piece had some undisclosed flaws. I wanted it anyway, and they sent it my way.

I’m never quite sure if my 2 experiences are typical, or an extreme outlier.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Greg - just out of curiosity, have you ever had a deal killed like this by the AG process?

I’ve had two deals flagged by the AG process, at which point they emailed me and asked if I still wanted the item. In one case, the case had cracked completely open, and I decided against buying it. In the other case, the raw piece had some undisclosed flaws. I wanted it anyway, and they sent it my way.

I’m never quite sure if my 2 experiences are typical, or an extreme outlier.

Yes, for item not as described, which was true but it was an obscure card and the seller's incorrectness was neither deceitful nor nefarious nor egregious, I believe. I was not contacted before hand, the deal was simply killed and a refund pushed through by eBay.

The one I was real nervous about PSA let slide through even the wrong subject was named in the auction title, but it was a very rare card in my favorite set (and I paid a record price for any card in that set, before I get accused again of robing the seller like last time) and I got it without it even being flagged, though technically it should have. So very inconsistent experience with getting flagged.

I have heard from many other people that they have had the same thing happen as I have had; not being contacted first. But I have also heard from many people that they were contacted first and presented the option of getting the card anyways. It seems to be an inconsistent thing, or perhaps it has been settled one way or the other recently. I will jump through some hoops for a rare card I really want, but common commodity cards over $250, I'll skip and just buy from someone over email and make it easier for both of us.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

PSA: Professional Slab Authenticator. Useless program done by a totally corrupt company.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

A slap on the wrist suspension for a potential $35K fraud attempt? Sorry but WTF? I don't get it. Is it because the seller had 10K+ feedbacks? That's just jacked up.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Fred

A slap on the wrist suspension for a potential $35K fraud attempt? Sorry but WTF? I don't get it. Is it because the seller had 10K+ feedbacks? That's just jacked up.

I was honestly shocked. The seller basically admitted the fraud to me by not responding and his explanation for the stolen scans was laughable. What he did was a clear criminal fraud -- and instead of banning him, or referring the matter to law enforcement -- eBay put him on double secret probation. Really sickening stuff.

[perezfan]

Maybe he had a good defense attorney?

Seriously though, I agree… it’s a no-brainer. He should’ve been banned.

[RhodeyRhode]

Originally Posted by Leon

So they reject for a scratched slab, LOL?
.

Has happened to me also on a card. Stating it needed to say scratch in the description. I was like its a high res image and everything is clearly visible. It looks to me ebay has a quota they have to reject so many and are making things up. And yes SGC slab. Never had had it happen to a psa slab

[Jay Wolt]

Here's an easy solution, go to the Post Office & rent a P.O. Box
& have your ebay purchases sent there & the authenticating service
is void & you get your card w/o delay.

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

Are you against outing the seller and card? I would think a 35K attempted theft/fraud would be of interest to someone in law enforcement (maybe I'm foolish for thinking so).

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Here's an easy solution, go to the Post Office & rent a P.O. Box
& have your ebay purchases sent there & the authenticating service
is void & you get your card w/o delay.

Not for long. They are working on adding P.O. Boxes to the AG program.

I just had a 14’ cj returned that was probably vg-ex because the seller stated that it was near mint. I asked them to sell it to me through PayPal and they agreed. Also sent eBay a message asking them in the future to please contact me before return any purchases.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This time, for the second time in my experience, they have rejected an SGC card claiming the slab was scratched. I am a fanatic about slabs and like any of my prior generation SGC slabs that I did not send off to be reholdered, this one was very nice, easily top 10 percent condition wise. So stupidly wasteful. If I didn't know better I would think PSA was biased even with their evaluator hat on.

Peter,

Can we see the card (scan or the listing)?

[Beercan collector]

I had a PSA card rejected for a scratch ,
( Arenado card ) .. I wanted it anyway but was not given that option

[Leon]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Are you against outing the seller and card? I would think a 35K attempted theft/fraud would be of interest to someone in law enforcement (maybe I'm foolish for thinking so).

35k would be for your local authorities unless it's some kind of bigger ring of fraud. Think 6 figures, or ongoing mass fraud, to get the FBI involved. I believe that is what (then) FBI SA Brusokas had said at the speech he gave at the 2019 Net54baseball dinner..
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Here's an easy solution, go to the Post Office & rent a P.O. Box
& have your ebay purchases sent there & the authenticating service
is void & you get your card w/o delay.

What's the logic there?

[Yoda]

If the card don't fit, you must acquit.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Here's an easy solution, go to the Post Office & rent a P.O. Box
& have your ebay purchases sent there & the authenticating service
is void & you get your card w/o delay.

Looks like an 11x11 P.O. box will cost me $516 for 12 months using the USPS website.

Doesn't having to pay $500 to the government to have a temporary workaround to drive to because a 3rd party company is killing a deal that follows the rules of the platform it was agreed to upon and for which the buyer and seller are both actively consenting and choosing to do of their own free will seem absolutely ridiculous? Or does this make sense to some people?

[packs]

I bought a factory certified auto from a seller and eBay then cancelled the sale and refunded me because the card wasn't "authentic". It was a 2022 Bowman Draft certified auto insert. Not sure what was wrong with it but I was equally surprised.

[RL]

PSA is not supposed to check for scratches..


below is copy and paste from ebay


The seller ships your card to the authentication facility, where ungraded cards are inspected by CGC Cards™, and graded cards have their case and label authenticated by a PSA authenticator. No regrading is performed.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's the logic there?

Logic being, I don't have to worry about the ebay authenticity program when I buy.
No delay, I get the card a couple days after I pay & I can determine if the card is legit.
I also deal w/ many repeat sellers w/ ample feedback, so I've never had a problem.

Granted when I sell a card in excess of $250, I must send it to PSA for verification before the buyer receives it.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by G1911

Looks like an 11x11 P.O. box will cost me $516 for 12 months using the USPS website.

Greg I pay less then a 1/3 of that
Granted I have a smaller box & I live in the sticks

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Greg I pay less then a 1/3 of that
Granted I have a smaller box & I live in the sticks

My zip:

[Lobo Aullando]

That size is usually for a business that's getting some volume. Individuals usually get one of the smaller sizes. There are lockers for large parcels that don't fit.

Originally Posted by G1911

My zip:

[Centauri]

I had to LOL at the original poster claiming his *slabs* would grade in the top 10%. How soon until we are trading a T206 Cobb bat off, card graded a PSA 4, slab graded a SGA 9 (SGA = Slab Graders of America).

[Popcorn]

Is anyone else waiting on orders to be authenticated? Had two cards delivered both on Monday the 18th still being processed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Logic being, I don't have to worry about the ebay authenticity program when I buy.
No delay, I get the card a couple days after I pay & I can determine if the card is legit.
I also deal w/ many repeat sellers w/ ample feedback, so I've never had a problem.

Granted when I sell a card in excess of $250, I must send it to PSA for verification before the buyer receives it.

I mean why would ebay exclude buyers with PO Boxes.

[JeremyW]

I'm a fan of the Ebay authentication deal. That being said, PSA should not be rejecting scratched slabs of any TPG. Frosted edges maybe, but not scratches.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Centauri

I had to LOL at the original poster claiming his *slabs* would grade in the top 10%. How soon until we are trading a T206 Cobb bat off, card graded a PSA 4, slab graded a SGA 9 (SGA = Slab Graders of America).

LOL but it's a real thing given how beat up SGC slabs, or at least the older generations, become with routine handling. PSA I can usually clean up, if needed, with Novus 2. Doesn't work nearly so well on SGC. Scratches, scuffs, clouding, little cracks that reflect light, routine for the older SGC slabs in my experience.

[JeremyW]

I can understand collectors being uncomfortable with scratches on their slabs, but PSA has no right to reject scratched slabs submitted to them through Ebay.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I mean why would ebay exclude buyers with PO Boxes.

Reason I was giving is because what shipping service the seller uses—> eBay AG continues that same service to the buyer after inspection. If a seller uses fedex they can’t add a usps number to it for a P.O. Box. But he said soon they will be able too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Reason I was giving is because what shipping service the seller uses—> eBay AG continues that same service to the buyer after inspection. If a seller uses fedex they can’t add a usps number to it for a P.O. Box. But he said soon they will be able too.

How many ebay sellers use fed ex? Tiny percentage in my experience.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lobo Aullando

That size is usually for a business that's getting some volume. Individuals usually get one of the smaller sizes. There are lockers for large parcels that don't fit.

You guys pick the size, I’ll provide evidence of the price, and I’ll repost the exact same original statement with but the new price value and maybe then some once can explain how this makes any sense.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many ebay sellers use fed ex? Tiny percentage in my experience.

At a certain value, Ebay/PSA/CSA use fedex to ship the cards after they've been "autheniticated."

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Reason I was giving is because what shipping service the seller uses—> eBay AG continues that same service to the buyer after inspection. If a seller uses fedex they can’t add a usps number to it for a P.O. Box. But he said soon they will be able too.

Has nothing to do with the seller's method of shipping. The seller is not shipping to the buyer. PSA has a huge discount for volume with Fed Ex as well as lower insurance rates if using Fed Ex and Fed Ex does not do traditional Post Office Boxes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

At a certain value, Ebay/PSA/CSA use fedex to ship the cards after they've been "autheniticated."

What is the value? I just had a 4+ K card come by USPS. The overwhelming majority of cards I imagine sold on ebay over 200 are less than that.

[JeremyW]

I dealt with it at $4K. Could be wrong.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I mean why would ebay exclude buyers with PO Boxes.

Have no idea what they are thinking & yes it makes no sense