Hey, pennant guys

Hankphenom · #1 07-10-2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I didn't see anything wrong with it. Everything he said was true. Only a matter of time before the Chiefs, Indians and Braves have new names. Ant Jemima and Uncle Ben both gone. I know plenty of black people who are pissed about that. Who decides what's offensive anyway? A vocal minority it seems.

So who IS going to decide? You? Mark? I can, however, tell you who decided when slavery was legal. I can tell you who decided when Native Americans were being marched into oblivion. I can guess that a poll of Germans in 1946 would have shown overwhelming support for keeping the Swastika as the country's symbol. If things swing a little too far in the direction of trying to correct America's long and sordid history of oppression of minorities of all kinds, that seems a small price to pay in the ledger of atonement. I suspect, though, that many of the objectors have no interest in atonement of any kind, and probably little awareness that there is anything to atone for.

perezfan · #2 07-10-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

So who IS going to decide? You? Mark? I can, however, tell you who decided when slavery was legal. I can tell you who decided when Native Americans were being marched into oblivion. I can guess that a poll of Germans in 1946 would have shown overwhelming support for keeping the Swastika as the country's symbol. If things swing a little too far in the direction of trying to correct America's long and sordid history of oppression of minorities of all kinds, that seems a small price to pay in the ledger of atonement. I suspect, though, that many of the objectors have no interest in atonement of any kind, and probably little awareness that there is anything to atone for.

It's a good and important discussion. But not for this particular thread (or even this forum). I edited out my previous comments, so we can just focus on pennants here.

I have a collection of Willard Mullin original artwork, circa 1940s-50s. Mullin created "The Brooklyn Bum" and used extreme characters to depict the Indians, Braves, Pirates, etc. I won't post the images, as many would be deemed offensive by today's standards.

I just found it interesting that the work of cartoon artists like Mullin/Gallo/O'Mealia graced the front pages of every major newspaper and The Sporting News every single day from the 1940s through at least the 1980s. Now it is a lost art form that is rarely seen. Perhaps partly because of the print media decline and partly because of the subject matter being more restrictive under today's standards.

Same holds true for the LSU Chinese Bandits Pennant posted by Rob... definitely would not be made today. Interesting topics for sure, but best suited for another day/another forum.

Fballguy · #3 07-10-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

So who IS going to decide? You? Mark? I can, however, tell you who decided when slavery was legal. I can tell you who decided when Native Americans were being marched into oblivion. I can guess that a poll of Germans in 1946 would have shown overwhelming support for keeping the Swastika as the country's symbol. If things swing a little too far in the direction of trying to correct America's long and sordid history of oppression of minorities of all kinds, that seems a small price to pay in the ledger of atonement. I suspect, though, that many of the objectors have no interest in atonement of any kind, and probably little awareness that there is anything to atone for.

That's right. I will decide and every other person with a brain should too. Too many sheep in this country afraid to think on their own. But I think that will change soon. A lot of good people of all races are getting tired of the lunacy.

PS...The world decided slavery was legal. And slaves were acquired from black brokers in Africa. So what exactly are you implying? I leave that rhetorical, as Mark said, there's a place for this conversation but it's probably not here.

ooo-ribay · #4 07-10-2021, 06:33 PM

I think the �sheep� are the exact opposite of the SJWs....which, by the way, I had to google. The real sheep love their demeaning catch phrases.

Sorry, I had to say it.

Fballguy · #5 07-10-2021, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I think the �sheep� are the exact opposite of the SJWs....which, by the way, I had to google. The real sheep love their demeaning catch phrases.

Sorry, I had to say it.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they're the exact opposite. I think they're afraid of the SJWs. Afraid to be called names or get cancelled for sharing an opposing view. So they just blend in to remain invisible from attack. They allow themselves to be bullied by them (a common tactic employed by the SJW among others) and they just go along to get along...regardless of what is truly right or just.

bocca001 · #6 07-10-2021, 11:27 PM

Here is a recent pickup for me. I guess it is Keezer? Or a copy of Keezer? It's not a full-size pennant. Maybe 3/4 size. The material is strange too. Almost like cheese cloth.

perezfan · #7 07-11-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here is a recent pickup for me. I guess it is Keezer? Or a copy of Keezer? It's not a full-size pennant. Maybe 3/4 size. The material is strange too. Almost like cheese cloth.

That's cool! One you don't see often, and really unique. There is a full-size orange version with that same graphic, but I like yours much better. Tough to find these white ones in such nice shape.

Great pickup, Marc!

ooo-ribay · #8 07-11-2021, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here is a recent pickup for me. I guess it is Keezer? Or a copy of Keezer? It's not a full-size pennant. Maybe 3/4 size. The material is strange too. Almost like cheese cloth.

As I mentioned, mine came from South America. I really kind of think that�s where they originated.

Mine was 99 cents with $25 shipping

Hankphenom · #9 07-11-2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

That's right. I will decide and every other person with a brain should too. Too many sheep in this country afraid to think on their own. But I think that will change soon. A lot of good people of all races are getting tired of the lunacy. PS...The world decided slavery was legal. And slaves were acquired from black brokers in Africa. So what exactly are you implying? I leave that rhetorical, as Mark said, there's a place for this conversation but it's probably not here.

How arrogant to claim that those who disagree with you don't have a brain, are "sheep." And who cares that you don't find the historical events being commemorated by these symbols offensive enough to warrant removal, enough others apparently do. And of course you missed my point entirely, that whatever overreaction and overreach in that regard pales in comparison to the suffering they represent. Feel free to fill your house with whatever historical representations you like, but I don't want to have to look at what you deem worthy to be celebrated in the public square.

thetahat · #10 07-11-2021, 04:06 PM

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

erikc21 · #11 07-11-2021, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

New pickup?? That�s a great flag!

Domer05 · #12 07-12-2021, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

I believe this one to be by Trench based upon the dimensions, cloth material, and red spines. There's a similar graphic for the '56 NL champ Brooklyn Dodgers.

thetahat · #13 07-12-2021, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

I believe this one to be by Trench based upon the dimensions, cloth material, and red spines. There's a similar graphic for the '56 NL champ Brooklyn Dodgers.

Respectfully … I’m not so sure about that. These seem radically different than Trench as far as design, graphics, etc. Do you mean red tassels? One thing they have in common (but for one below) is colored tassels with white spine. Trench almost all have matching tassels and spine, except it seems for some in the 1962-63 range.

I believe these are all from the same company …

Domer05 · #14 07-13-2021, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

Respectfully Im not so sure about that. These seem radically different than Trench as far as design, graphics, etc. Do you mean red tassels? One thing they have in common (but for one below) is colored tassels with white spine. Trench almost all have matching tassels and spine, except it seems for some in the 1962-63 range.

I believe these are all from the same company

Sorry: I meant red tassels, yes.

Radically different? I think its more of a close call

Trench definitely used a white spine + colored tassels combo throughout the 1950s. You see that look on many different styles of Brooklyn Dodger pennants. But they also used the white spine + white tassel look then, too. (Even yellow spine + yellow tassels.). You are correct: by the early 1960s, at least on Los Angeles Dodgers pennants, they used red tassels + white spine + blue felt. That gave them a colorful look that of course complemented the teams colors. I have no idea if they did that for other teams, or if it was a characteristic unique to the Dodgers.

Honestly I dont think the color of the tassels is that helpful in IDing a pennants maker. I was more referring to the fact that your Indians pennant DID have tassels. That characteristic alone excludes WGN and ADFLAG from the discussion; and your mystery maker that weve all been consumed with identifying (the maker of the sliding runner series and the stiff arm footballer series none of which featured tassels).

That really leaves Trench, doesnt it? Tassels - check. Polychromatic artwork - check. Distinctive serif font - check. If the dimensions measure 8 x 26, and/or the its made of flannel, thats even more evidence its likely by Trench.

Unfortunately, until we can extract the DNA from a pennant, well never really know no for sure who created it, right?

As to the four pennants you singled out FWIW, Im confident the ca. 1950 Whiz Kids pennants is by Trench. Im on the fence as to the first Brooklyn pennant, which I think may be a phantom from 1951, perhaps? It looks like Trenchs work but Ive never seen it in person so Ill reserve judgment on that one.

thetahat · #15 07-10-2021, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

So who IS going to decide? You? Mark? I can, however, tell you who decided when slavery was legal. I can tell you who decided when Native Americans were being marched into oblivion. I can guess that a poll of Germans in 1946 would have shown overwhelming support for keeping the Swastika as the country's symbol. If things swing a little too far in the direction of trying to correct America's long and sordid history of oppression of minorities of all kinds, that seems a small price to pay in the ledger of atonement. I suspect, though, that many of the objectors have no interest in atonement of any kind, and probably little awareness that there is anything to atone for.

One should only *atone* for the results of his or her own immoral actions. That�s not the same as speaking up for what is right.

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