the list (of criminals) is revealed

[begsu1013]

i got one simple question for those who got shilled...

WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO ABOUT IT?

again, i never really purchased from ah's. luckily i'm lazy, unwilling to learn 30 different user ids and passwords or bid in 15 min spans after the auction closes or any of that absolute bs, but...

I can guaranfntee that if I was "just another victim" of the sgc owner and his brother that i would be down in boca raton right now w/ a fully charged iphone, videoing him get served w/ suit right in the middle of church this sunday. the proof is literally right in front of you.

obviously allen and maestro are turnips at this point, but aren't there a lot of folks that are still major players in the auction/fraud game!

so, again. and instead of posting on a message board about how crooked they are and how all of this is a travesty...

what are you prepared to do?

or more importantly what ARE you doing besides typing/talking on some forum?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

so, again. and instead of posting on a message board about how crooked they are and how all of this is a travesty...

what are you prepared to do?

or more importantly what ARE you doing besides typing/talking on some forum?

I'm changing my bidding habits and will from now on only bid incrementally (never again will I place a maximum bid.) I'm having conversations within and outside this forum to determine which AH I feel I can trust (there are some.)

As to punishing the offenders, I'll leave that up to the FBI and the courts.

People posting on these message boards about their various experiences is helpful to me in determining who I want to do business with in the future. This is a useful topic to discuss, and WAY better than not discussing it at all, pretending it doesn't exist, or trying to stifle the conversation.

And the biggest thing I've learned is, thank goodness for net54, because Leon is the ONLY owner of a major hobby site that I know of, who is allowing the conversation. This, despite several posters using the opportunity to attack him personally.

I value the concept of free speech pretty highly (as with other basic essential rights we must all have to live in a free society,) and I also value the concept of ownership, and the fact that Leon, or any site owner, has the right to delete posts and ban members as he chooses. So, when he chooses to allow us to openly discuss this, and he allows several people to use the opportunity to attack him personally, I think it's pretty significant.

I used to spend 80% of my hobby blog time on another site and occasionally checked things out here. That has dramatically changed. I've lost a lot of respect for that other site, the way they've shut down this conversation, and I've developed a lot of respect for the owner of this site.

So... that's doing things and making tangible changes.

[keithsky]

At almost 800 posts you can see this topic is affecting all of us. Some of the post on here have gotten off topic but quickly gets back on tract. I also give Leon credit for letting everyone voice there opinion on this even if it he has taken jabs personally at him which he has taken it well and could have easily deleted it but hasn't, so kudos to him. Guys are concerned about the shilling going on and when you go on other sites, people have said they have deleted posts. If your on that list why not make a small comment about it. If people were making statements about me I think I would defend myself. I think most guys on the list that haven't made a comment are just waiting for things to die down and go away. Like most things people move on and forget or let it go and in my opinion in a few weeks there won't be anymore posts on this as it will run it's coarse and those guys won't have to worry about it anymore at least for the time being. I hope the topic stays alive and we all need to police the hobby. Thanks Leon for letting us vent.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by keithsky

At almost 800 posts you can see this topic is affecting all of us. Some of the post on here have gotten off topic but quickly gets back on tract. I also give Leon credit for letting everyone voice there opinion on this even if it he has taken jabs personally at him which he has taken it well and could have easily deleted it but hasn't, so kudos to him. Guys are concerned about the shilling going on and when you go to the another site, people have said they have deleted posts. If your on that list why not make a small comment personally instead of have an employee do it for you. Looks bad that way. If people were making statements about me I think I would defend myself. I think most guys on the list that haven't made a comment are just waiting for things to die down and go away. Like most things people move on and forget or let it go and in my opinion in a few weeks there won't be anymore posts on this as it will run it's coarse and those guys won't have to worry about it anymore at least for the time being. I hope the topic stays alive and we all need to police the hobby. Thanks Leon for letting us vent.

There's lots more coming on this, and it will turn much, but not all, of what's been said here on its head. Stay tuned.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

There's lots more coming on this, and it will turn much, but not all, of what's been said here on its head. Stay tuned.

Quoted for future reference.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Quoted for future reference.

Oh shillt!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

There's lots more coming on this, and it will turn much, but not all, of what's been said here on its head. Stay tuned.

I think Mr Thomas knows what he is talking about.

[begsu1013]

rea dude retires.
sgc moves company.
cu all but pulls the plug on it's message board. goldfish in the toilet bowl.





"there is no coincidence. there is only the illusion of coincidence."

[Rich Klein]

There is a thread still open on Beckett but because the audience is far different, that thread went nowhere

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1580531.html

Rich

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the biggest thing I've learned is, thank goodness for net54, because Leon is the ONLY owner of a major hobby site that I know of, who is allowing the conversation. This, despite several posters using the opportunity to attack him personally....

Kudos to that. I don't know Leon, never meet him. But have some big time respect for how he runs this board. Makes the other forums look like a bunch of amateurs.

[begsu1013]

I don't know Leon, never meet him. But have some big time respect for how he runs this board. Makes the other forums look like a bunch of amateurs.

hard to argue this.

especially when the cu admin posts this:

"Hi all,

Perhaps as a non-IT person, I may not be explaining it correctly, but I assure you that I'm not trying to stall or place blame elsewhere.

That said - we are a grading company first and foremost. This means our resources will be directed to our grading/internal systems first.

I am not saying that the forums aren't important, but they do have to fall in line in the long list of priorities.

As I've said, we do appreciate your patience. I got word from our IT group that they were able to figure out the line break issue at least and it appears to be working.

There is a long list of issues we're trying to tackle and they will be addressed in due time.

-Forum Admin"



edit to add:


"i'm not trying to pass blame"

ahh. yea ya did. you blamed it on fusetalk and that you were waiting on them.



several months after the "upgrade" and member gets fed up. emails fusetalk himself. posts this:

"I asked FuseTalk and got this reply:

You may want to speak with your forum administrator and advise them of the issues - Collectors is responsible for the functionality of their installation. "



"i assure you, i'm not trying to stall"

ahh. yea ya did. that's exactly what ya did. not only that, you attempted to pass the buck and claim it was fusetalk's responsibility.



then today: "i am not saying that the forums aren't important..."

that's exactly what you are saying. but thanks for the months of misdirection and (using this next word as politely as possible), disinformation. gee thanks.



.

[drcy]

It would be naive to expect a company chatboard to allow unfettered criticism of the company and its products. Though that's why you shouldn't go to a company's message boards and press releases to get unfettered and objective information.

The hobby has been taught lessons about journalism lately.

[mark evans]

I agree with those who would commend Leon for allowing this and other controversial threads to run their course.

The most remarkable aspect of the court filing, in my view, is the sheer pervasiveness of shill bidding during the period covered. One can only assume that Mastro engaged in similar conduct through much if not all of its existence. Jeff L should be commended for calling out Mastro officials long ago.

Query whether similar conduct was engaged in by other auction houses as I assume some of the same consignors and shillers did not limit their business to Mastro auctions?

In any event, going forward, it seems to me that the auction houses would be prudent to engage in some form of self-regulation. Assuming they don't, I think there is still a pretty good chance that the Mastro prosecutions will put the fear of God in all but the most brazen fraudsters.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I agree with those who would commend Leon for allowing this and other controversial threads to run their course.

The most remarkable aspect of the court filing, in my view, is the sheer pervasiveness of shill bidding during the period covered. One can only assume that Mastro engaged in similar conduct through much if not all of its existence. Jeff L should be commended for calling out Mastro officials long ago.

Query whether similar conduct was engaged in by other auction houses as I assume some of the same consignors and shillers did not limit their business to Mastro auctions?

In any event, going forward, it seems to me that the auction houses would be prudent to engage in some form of self-regulation. Assuming they don't, I think there is still a pretty good chance that the Mastro prosecutions will put the fear of God in all but the most brazen fraudsters.

if the fear is selling for years and make millions of dollars and only few out of a hundred people actually going to jail..then yeah they scared..

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

luckily i'm lazy, unwilling to learn 30 different user ids and passwords

Dashlane.com

great password/wallet software and it is free for your PC.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Dashlane.com



great password/wallet software and it is free for your PC.

LastPass is my password manager of choice. It also works with my iPhone - I can log into websites with my fingerprint (Touch ID).