This is the problem with grading...

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by skelly

I'm going to go back to the beginning of the thread. Personally I never really understood/cared about Gem mint 10's, etc until now... Let me explain. As a collector, I actually usually look for vg-ex cards that are crease free, just look ok, etc... Not looking to spend a ton of money on cards, and not expecting to ever sell them for a lot.
This all changed when I saw a PSA 10 Jim Rice 1976 on ebay. I remember when I was in like 5th grade my friends older brother said we could have a few baseballs cards if we helped him with a clean-up project he had around the house. Anyway one of the cards I got was the Rice. This was back in the mid eighties and 76 was certainly "vintage" to me back then. I thought it was the coolest card ever with the trophy on it, etc...
My dilemma is this. The Art Shell thing is just crazy. It's an eight all the way in my opinion. Slight marks on the black lines, some missing color spots on the ribbon. I mean its a heck of a card, but not a "10" The grading thing is in jeopardy if people start to fear that cards can earn a 10 if they don't deserve to. If buyers lose confidence it will be a big problem. To be quite frank, the Art Shell going from an 8 to a 10 is perhaps the most upsetting thing I've ever seen in the hobby. Its the only thing holding me back from buying the Rice

I agree that the "vagaries" of the grading exposed on this thread are a serious issue and warrant a public explanation by the principals responsible. They've already "sanitized" their own message baord by deleting at least 4 threads about the topic.

As for the seller I noticed he posted the following on this thread. Why he buried this response in an unrelated thread and didn't start one to put all collectors at ease is beyond me:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...22&STARTPAGE=3

CU Board members,
I welcome you or anyone to come to my office with a polygraph and video....hopefully, my replies below will shed light on the recent accusations...

this is how I would reply to the following questions:

did I sell a 73 psa art shell psa 8 with a unique amoeba like PD on the reverse ? ans: yes
did I ever look or realize who the winner of the card was after the auction closed ? ans: no
did I tip off to anyone that this card was perhaps special and have potential to bump ? ans: no
was involved in cracking out the card in any fashion and resubmitting it to psa > ans: no
did I have some special profit deal above my 5% for selling the card ? ans: no
did I sell the card once bumped to a psa 10 with the same unique amoeba reverse ? ans: yes
did I prompt/initiate/instruct any shill bidding on this card ? no, I had no knowledge of who was bidding on the card...
have I taken any action against that bidders ID since it was shown to me that a safely bid was placed ? yes, i have blocked that ID....
why did they grade the card a psa 8 and then a psa 10 ? this is a question for psa...we don't grade them, we just sell them...

gentleman , my role in the industry is very clear....we move inventory....we have an active consignor pool of over 400 consignors....
I currently don't have an account submitting cards to psa....I spend the lion share my time busy with consignments and buying large lots from auction houses and breaking up the lots....

we do not have any special arrangement with anyone who buys from our consignments, anyone is welcome to come to my office to view inventory like a major auction house
and I will answer questions via any auction to the best of my ability....if someone wins a cards and decides to review it for a higher grade or cracks it out to resubmit, this is their own doing
and we have NOTHING to do with it - we aren't partners with any buyers on item they win from probstein123 auctions - we take our 5% and thats it....as ebays largest seller ,
we do auction loads of cards that fall in this category, ie: old label psa 8's , well centered , that have never been reviewed before...if a dealer or collector wins these cards and gets some sort of bump , its without knowledge and
participation from probstein123....
if psa/sgc or beckett holders a card we will sell it....if its raw and we think the card has been trimmed or altered in some way , we state this ( see our prior auctions ) ...

thanks
rick