The Superiority of SGC

[VintageVinnie]

I respect your opinion, but SGC is still my choice as an average collector. They are human and of course mistakes are going to be made. But I find SGC is consistently more accurate with their grading and, by far, make less mistakes than the competition. You see that now with the PSA mess. Trimmed cards in PSA holders EVERYWHERE. SGC, very wisely, has gotten out of the autograph business. That industry is a cess pool and it least they recognize that and their strengths in grading cardboard only.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by VintageVinnie

I respect your opinion, but SGC is still my choice as an average collector. They are human and of course mistakes are going to be made. But I find SGC is consistently more accurate with their grading and, by far, make less mistakes than the competition. You see that now with the PSA mess. Trimmed cards in PSA holders EVERYWHERE. SGC, very wisely, has gotten out of the autograph business. That industry is a cess pool and it least they recognize that and their strengths in grading cardboard only.

Speaking of opinions, after 4 or 5 SGC cheerleader posts, in the last hour or so. You need to post your full name when giving an opinion.

[lowpopper]

VintageVinnie,

Post your real name!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

VintageVinnie,

Post your real name!

Good idea Mr. C

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Good idea Mr. C

That’s my real name. I am a real person. I encourage
everyone to come meet me at the National.

Love,

Greg Campbell

[Republicaninmass]

If SGC had implemented at least some sort of reason to their numbering system, the blow out guys would undoubtedly be able to find more cards from the doctored submissions.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Actually he was a huge submitter to gai. I suggest you research 1955 Bowman’s GAi and moser for one example. Oh I see Anthony beat me to it. Lol.

LOL....there are reasons cards are still in GAI holders. It isn't because they are more valuable either.

As far as the other comment about a name with an opinion. It was added and more will be added as they are needed. And if anyone sees anything suspicious concerning any members, a confidential PM or email is always a good thing. Same thing concerning the opinion rule where names are needed. There won't be any member who can say a PM wasn't at least followed up on and usually extremely quickly.
As with any internet site it is caveat emptor. I can say though, anyone who has pm'd me in the past 15+ yrs, has not been scammed doing a trade or sale here. And I can't remember an outright scammer ever getting too far on our BST. Thanks to all members for their vigilance.

.

[brad31]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If SGC had implemented at least some sort of reason to their numbering system, the blow out guys would undoubtedly be able to find more cards from the doctored submissions.

This is the main reason so few SGC cards have been discovered so far. I collect SGC cards more than most but have to believe the cards that did not get graded from PSA in all of those submissions went to SGC. I imagine a decent percentage of those are in SGC graded holders.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If SGC had implemented at least some sort of reason to their numbering system, the blow out guys would undoubtedly be able to find more cards from the doctored submissions.

agree which actually makes the cards in their holders worth less in my eyes then PSA where you can at least partially check things out versus zero

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did SGC articulate a rationale for moving away from sequential certs?

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Congrats on that!

Thanks. Payday today, and The money ($787) is in my account now. PWCC is taking the initiative to reach out and notify its clients about these altered PSA-graded cards and providing timely refunds. So at least they're making good on the promise of restitution.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by brad31

This is the main reason so few SGC cards have been discovered so far. I collect SGC cards more than most but have to believe the cards that did not get graded from PSA in all of those submissions went to SGC. I imagine a decent percentage of those are in SGC graded holders.

Without any evidence, this is nothing more than a guess. And I have yet to see a single example of an SGC-numerically-graded card that has been trimmed.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Thanks. Payday today, and The money ($787) is in my account now. PWCC is taking the initiative to reach out and notify its clients about these altered PSA-graded cards and providing timely refunds. So at least they're making good on the promise of restitution.

Are they being taken care of behind the scenes by Newport Beach ?

That would no shock me one bit...a day late and a dollar short

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Without any evidence, this is nothing more than a guess. And I have yet to see a single example of an SGC-numerically-graded card that has been trimmed.

Who needs to when a card goes up 30k in value from building up corners and a little bleach? Some pretty high increases on those sgc resub results, or are you blind to those as well?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Thanks. Payday today, and The money ($787) is in my account now. PWCC is taking the initiative to reach out and notify its clients about these altered PSA-graded cards and providing timely refunds. So at least they're making good on the promise of restitution.

Like a bank robber returning (some of) the money after he got caught red handed. To try to get a lighter sentence. Wowzers. Where was their initiative during a decade or more of this sh*t?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Like a bank robber returning (some of) the money after he got caught red handed. To try to get a lighter sentence. Wowzers. Where was their initiative during a decade or more of this sh*t?

Well in your situation the bank robber was actually arrested, and trying to get a ligher sentence..

in this situation, no arrest, no lawsuits..everyone is being paid back....nothing to see here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Well in your situation the bank robber was actually arrested, and trying to get a ligher sentence..

in this situation, no arrest, no lawsuits..everyone is being paid back....nothing to see here.

To me, an active FBI investigation is not nothing. But that's just me, Jake.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

in this situation, no arrest, no lawsuits..everyone is being paid back....nothing to see here.

*yawn* Wait, did I miss something new?....nope. Ok, back to my nap.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

*yawn* Wait, did I miss something new?....nope. Ok, back to my nap.

Jake doesn't understand, it seems, that sometimes the investigation precedes the arrest/indictment.

SGC is on the top of their game

[BLongley]

Ok, here is an SGC 3 Cy Young Port with an EPDG back that was sold by Lee back in his 2017 auction. It was then cleaned up and regraded by SGC to a 5.5 and sold by PWCC with the High End sticker of course....

Perhaps Lee can see who bought the card? I’m curious of course... was it Moser? Maybe someone else? Link to BO research below:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3708

[Peter_Spaeth]

Gary is not a T206 guy I don't believe. But, someone else working with Brent might be. It would not surprise me at all if Brent himself was the buyer, just as he bought the WWG DiMaggio out of REA, and some other cards I am aware of.

No big deal, though, at least it wasn't trimmed so yay for SGC.

[brad31]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Without any evidence, this is nothing more than a guess. And I have yet to see a single example of an SGC-numerically-graded card that has been trimmed.

No just some coloring in of white spots, bleaching, working on corners, etc.

It would be awesome if we could see the Moser/PWCC submissions.

Here is what I know:

>Submissions to PSA usually contained scores of cards.
>There are multiple cards that have been worked on with numerical grades from SGC revealed in the Blowout forums

I deduce - the submissions to SGC were likely multiple card submissions as were those to PSA.

I deduce - More than what we know from each submission got through - otherwise SGC rejected all but one card - but did not raise a red flag that there was only one legit card mixed in with a bunch of alterations.

Again I like SGC and have bought a lot of cards in their holders. I would like to have lists to check against like I do my PSA cards that I purchased from PWCC

[clydepepper]

Let's face it guys: The most trustworthy status of Baseball cards, unlike women, is raw.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Let's face it guys: The most trustworthy status of Baseball cards, unlike women, is raw.

I don't think raw is trustworthy either. The very reason TPGers came into being is because there so many altered raw cards. The TPGer promise has clearly been proven to be an illusion in many cases, but that certainly doesn't mean that raw is clean. I would suggest that common sense and experience, while not certain, may be the most important attributes that any collector can have at this point. And I get that isn't particularly safe either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I don't think raw is trustworthy either. The very reason TPGers came into being is because there so many altered raw cards. The TPGer promise has clearly been proven to be an illusion in many cases, but that certainly doesn't mean that raw is clean. I would suggest that common sense and experience, while not certain, may be the most important attributes that any collector can have at this point. And I get that isn't particularly safe either.

I would imagine the Wagner wasn't the only trimmed card people sold to Jim Copeland. And yeah when I started in the early 90s and almost everything was raw it was the wild west out there with trimmed cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BLongley

Ok, here is an SGC 3 Cy Young Port with an EPDG back that was sold by Lee back in his 2017 auction. It was then cleaned up and regraded by SGC to a 5.5 and sold by PWCC with the High End sticker of course....

Perhaps Lee can see who bought the card? I’m curious of course... was it Moser? Maybe someone else? Link to BO research below:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3708

I understand that as a general matter AHs and dealers would not divulge the identity of their buyers, but when the purchases at issue obviously involve fraud, WHY continue to protect the guilty? Why not out them? What's the downside, what's the fear? Not singling Lee out by any means.

Brent was connected to the WWG DiMaggio only because someone came forward and told me, and allowed me to post it. We are now almost certainly dealing with many multiples of that situation, where people could come forward and provide facts.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me, an active FBI investigation is not nothing. But that's just me, Jake.

When 'active' for this long given all the proof that has been submitted, you can indict a ham sandwich, yet nothing done

Also arrests are usually made so evidence cant be destroyed while the 'active' investigation takes place

Yes, if the investigation is more secret, and there is less worry that any alleged crimes are now being hidden or evidence isnt destroyed there is more of a wait period.

Tough to say there are victims in the criminal case when no civil lawsuits

Times just keeps going on...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jake -- you're clueless about this.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

*yawn* Wait, did I miss something new?....nope. Ok, back to my nap.

The quote you took from me was actually taken out of context.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jake -- you're clueless about this.

OK how many months/years need to go by before you agree the 'active' investigation isnt so active.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

OK how many months/years need to go by before you agree the 'active' investigation isnt so active.

Until subpoenas and search warrants are served I don’t think any criminal investigation is going on. An inquiry yes that’s where I believe we are at right now...

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I just got an email from Betsy Huigens stating that they now have the card in-house, and that my refund would be issued in my PayPal account on Monday.

Did Betsy happen to mention in which cave Brent was currently residing, busily counting his profits and contemplating his new life in Brazil?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

OK how many months/years need to go by before you agree the 'active' investigation isnt so active.

I know people who are actively engaged with the active FBI investigation. Just stop already, enough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Until subpoenas and search warrants are served I don’t think any criminal investigation is going on. An inquiry yes that’s where I believe we are at right now...

You wouldn't know, the FBI isn't going to publicly announce subpoenas and search warrants.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Speaking of opinions, after 4 or 5 SGC cheerleader posts, in the last hour or so. You need to post your full name when giving an opinion.

Cheerleader posts? The only guys crying are the people who must be holding loads of PSA cards. Their like little kids telling their mom "he did it to". The percentage of PSA graded duds is overall way greater than SGC. PSA stinks and some of you just want to cover up for the,. Disgrace. FRANK ANTHONY

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Until subpoenas and search warrants are served I don’t think any criminal investigation is going on. An inquiry yes that’s where I believe we are at right now...

The way people gossip in this small card community, i would think word would of gotten out if there were search warrants given and police tape etc around the building etc.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You wouldn't know, the FBI isn't going to publicly announce subpoenas and search warrants.

no but someone connected to someone would announce it in gossip...no not TMZ but in our little community, i doubt a search warrant goes quietly.... especially since it would shut me up...!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no but someone connected to someone would announce it in gossip...no not TMZ but in our little community, i doubt a search warrant goes quietly.... especially since it would shut me up...!

How much did we know about the Mastro investigation as it was unfolding? Your logic is ridiculous Jake.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no but someone connected to someone would announce it in gossip...no not TMZ but in our little community, i doubt a search warrant goes quietly.... especially since it would shut me up...!

So how would I arrange a search warrant?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You wouldn't know, the FBI isn't going to publicly announce subpoenas and search warrants.

Key word served. Until then nobody will know, that is obvious. LE doesnt tip our hands.
My point is I don’t believed it’s even being thought of right now

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How much did we know about the Mastro investigation as it was unfolding? Your logic is ridiculous Jake.

I would think after Mastro, now there would be more chance of a leak then ever now.'

You know you always say everybody is wrong in everything no matter the subject area. saying i am ridiculous when we are both just giving opinions is ridiculous

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would think after Mastro, now there would be more chance of a leak then ever now.

Please stop ....you will find out if and when sir

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Key word served. Until then nobody will know, that is obvious.
My point is I don’t believed it’s even being thought of right now

Peter will say he does not agree with you and you are being ridiculous.

I guess the FBI is doing double secret probation with these guys like lambda lambda lambda was on with the university

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Please stop ....you will find out if and when sir

i agree, but as time goes by, all i am saying that after 6 months if nothing is served with all the information in hand that we are getting let alone with FBI resources if nothing is served than its a non issue..

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i agree, but as time goes by, all i am saying that after 6 months if nothing is served with all the information in hand that we are getting let alone with FBI resources if nothing is served than its a non issue..

Let it play out....you can’t change anything. If they wanna pursue things further their is no rush for any LE to do so.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Let it play out....you can’t change anything. If they wanna pursue things further their is no rush for any LE to do so.

i agree, what usually makes LE more aggressive is when there are victims collecting and civil lawsuits like you see in ponzi schemes. However you know what i will say next.....and then peter will say thats ridiculous..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would think after Mastro, now there would be more chance of a leak then ever now.'

You know you always say everybody is wrong in everything no matter the subject area. saying i am ridiculous when we are both just giving opinions is ridiculous

I told you I am not giving an opinion, I am in touch with people who are dealing with the FBI. Read what I write. Post 84 for one.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

None of Moser's cards got by GAI.

Wait until Monday...

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i agree, what usually makes LE more aggressive is when there are victims collecting and civil lawsuits like you see in ponzi schemes. However you know what i will say next.....and then peter will say thats ridiculous..

I would agree with Peter if he said your comment is ridiculous.....what you commented has never come into my mind....ever...civil lawsuits are for tort lawyers not LE