I guess this is goodbye

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I read Mark as saying as long as I get to enjoy the forum for free, I don't care where the revenue comes from. That's fine, he's entitled to feel that way, but don't be calling ME disingenuous.

But that's not ALL he's saying. He's trashing people for saying they don't like that the ads are here. That's a HUGE difference. If he just said what you said he said, I would have just agreed and moved on. But he took it further and trashed someone for having principles? That's completely absurd. What he's really saying is Leon can do what he wants and everyone should support him and everything he does because the site is free to use, and if you don't your'e a jerk. Really?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

But that's not ALL he's saying. He's trashing people for saying they don't like that the ads are here. That's a HUGE difference. If he just said what you said he said, I would have just agreed and moved on. But he took it further and trashed someone for having principles? That's completely absurd. What he's really saying is Leon can do what he wants and everyone should support him and everything he does because the site is free to use, and if you don't your'e a jerk. Really?

Yes, I am with you 100 percent on this, that's what I was trying to say not so clearly apparently by adding, don't be calling ME disingenuous for objecting. That's where he crossed the line.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, I am with you 100 percent on this, that's what I was trying to say not so clearly apparently by adding, don't be calling ME disingenuous for objecting. That's where he crossed the line.

Okay, I get it now.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

Honestly, this whole thing is disingenuous. If you truly felt that PWCC advertising on this forum meant this forum was "associated" with PWCC, you would leave. Anyone who is a member of a PWCC-sponsored forum is associated with PWCC, right? Or is it just people who take their money? If so, this isn't about morals or principles, this is about money.

So long as Leon isn't stifling critical conversation of sponsors (which he CLEARLY isn't), there is no "issue of morals and integrity." What's the problem?

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Honestly, this whole thing is disingenuous. If you truly felt that PWCC advertising on this forum meant this forum was "associated" with PWCC, you would leave. Anyone who is a member of a PWCC-sponsored forum is associated with PWCC, right? Or is it just people who take their money? If so, this isn't about morals or principles, this is about money.

So long as Leon isn't stifling critical conversation of sponsors (which he CLEARLY isn't), there is no "issue of morals and integrity." What's the problem?

I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

[calvindog]

Is REA gone too?

[Leon]

Principles? Honesty?
Can you answer why this is your registration information?



From: Bradd Scharping [mailto:braddavery@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Leon Luckey
Subject: Re: contact info for Net54

sportscardtheory

Bradd Scharping

716-xxx-xxxxx

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

LOL, no one is pretending anything. It is simple, attack Leon or call him out for something and you get banned. Do you not get that? Use emails like every one else.

[Leon]

So if that were the case you and several others would be banned and you aren't. You really can't comprehend or read, can you?

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, no one is pretending anything. It is simple, attack Leon or call him out for something and you get banned. Do you not get that? Use emails like every one else.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

Principles? Honesty?
Can you answer why this is your registration information?



From: Bradd Scharping [mailto:braddavery@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Leon Luckey
Subject: Re: contact info for Net54

sportscardtheory

Bradd Scharping

716-xxx-xxxxx

Because when I first signed up, I signed up under a fake name thinking it didn't matter. I had used that name and email for years to sign in to message boards and such, to be anonymous. And then you asked me for my real name in like 2011. Funny how you always bring up people's identity as some sort of cryptic threat when you don't like what they have to say. I mean, we all know your name too you know.

[Leon]

LMAO, I just don't want fraudsters, just as you did in your registration, on our board. You are quite the hypocrite. There is no cryptic threat here, I am just calling a spade a spade. Everyone can see what you did for themselves. Fraudster....
And I don't remember that conversation 8? years ago so will consider that a lie too, just like your registration. BTW., please PM me with your new registration info. It will be verified as you apparently can't be trusted to be honest.

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Because when I first signed up, I signed up under a fake name thinking it didn't matter. I had used that name and email for years to sign in to message boards and such, to be anonymous. And then you asked me for my real name in like 2011. Funny how you always use people's identity as some sort of cryptic threat when you don't like what they have to say.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

LMAO, I just don't want fraudsters, just as you did in your registration, on our board. You are quite the hypocrite. There is no cryptic threat here, I am just calling a spade a spade. Everyone can see what you did for themselves. Fraudster....

What?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

What?

One form of Fraud is intentionally deceiving someone. You already admitted to it in this thread. That is why I said everyone can read it for themselves.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

One form of Fraud is intentionally deceiving someone. You already admitted to it in this thread. That is why I said everyone can read it for themselves.

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

[sportscardtheory]

fraud
/frôd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Call me a fraud again.

[Leon]

Again, I honestly can't' believe anything you say after a fake registration. We very well might be the only forum where people have to stand behind what they say, with their name. So there can't be pure anonymity because of that.
Once again, you need to PM me with your real registration info, just like the other 10,000+ members have on file. If you consider that a threat then maybe you need go hide out somewhere else.

Fraud - a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. Note is says typically, not always. To me, the fraud you committed, can be a fraudulent registration...

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

Again, I honestly can't' believe anything you say after a fake registration. We very well might be the only forum where people have to stand behind what they say, with their name. So there can't be pure anonymity because of that.
Once again, you need to PM me with your real registration info, just like the other 10,000+ members have on file. If you consider that a threat then maybe you need go hide out somewhere else.

I already did. In 2011. That's why my real name is here now. You have info from 2009, but nothing from 2011?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I already did. In 2011. That's why my real name is here now. You have info from 2009, but nothing from 2011?

The only registration I have for you is the fraudulent one I posted.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

The only registration I have for you is the fraudulent one I posted.

Oops. It was 2010.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=507

That's funny. How did I get unbanned then. I'll resend the info again. Just wondering why you don't have it already.

[frankbmd]

Frankly I’m startled by this diversion, but it does keep this thread alive until Paul returns.

Yes, frankly!

[sportscardtheory]

He's got an issue with me using a borrowed name to register to a website, which most people do to safeguard from doxxing, and calls me a fraud because of it, but he has no issue with purposely taking money from crooks, people who are actually committing legitimate fraud. lol That's freaking hilarious. Or sad. One of the two.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

He's got a problem with me using a fake name to register to a website, which most people do to safeguard from doxxing, and calls me a fraud because of it, but he has no issue with purposely taking money from crooks, people who are actually committing legitimate fraud. lol That's freaking hilarious.

I didn't use a fake name...

You're on a free forum provided by third party advertisers. Like it or not, your membership fee was partially paid for by Brent Huigens. You participate in the BST, you conduct business here. Your entire argument seems disingenuous.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I didn't use a fake name...

You're on a free forum provided by third party advertisers. Like it or not, your membership fee was partially paid for by Brent Huigens. You participate in the BST, you conduct business here. Your entire argument seems disingenuous.

I don't conduct business here. What's disingenuous is calling me a fraud and not PWCC.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I don't conduct business here. What's disingenuous is calling me a fraud and not PWCC.

Well... lying to a business owner in order to gain access to his business certainly isn't the epitome of transparency.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

fraud
/frôd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

From that definition it sounds like Brent might have committed fraud.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Well... lying to a business owner in order to gain access to his business certainly isn't the epitome of transparency.

Anyone with half a brain sees that you are being ridiculous.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Anyone with half a brain sees that you are being ridiculous.

You're right - my apologies. It is the epitome of transparency.

I have no horse in this race, if you feel that it is immoral to take money from PWCC, that is your right.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You're right - my apologies. It is the epitome of transparency.

I have no horse in this race, if you feel that it is immoral to take money from PWCC, that is your right.

Yes, because online anonymity is akin to defrauding unsuspecting buyers out of millions of dollars. Your'e the epitome of absurdity.

[Bpm0014]

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

When I registered 10 years ago, I thought "Why would anyone join a chat board that asks for personal information?" Doxxing, stolen identity, stalkers, nasty people with vendettas having access to your info, etc. I still think it's crazy to force people to post their personal info due to the reasons listed, but whatever. I'm not doing anything wrong. It's still risky to put yourself and others out there, even more so now than 10 years ago.

[asphaltman]

So does anyone else wish baseball would throw out the infield fly rule ?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

So does anyone else wish baseball would throw out the infield fly rule ?

I think the infield fly rule is a necessity. I would personally throw out the ground rule double. If the ball bounces into the stands, it's still playable. Fans can try to hide the ball from the player or throw the ball back.

[packs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think the infield fly rule is a necessity. I would personally throw out the ground rule double. If the ball bounces into the stands, it's still playable. Fans can try to hide the ball from the player or throw the ball back.

I always thought it should be a ground rule triple. Hitting the ball into the stands on a fly is 4 bases, the next best thing seems like 3 and not 2.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

Rubbish! The other two I'm active in have less anonymity than we have here.

Slipshod groups with no interest in truth and civility, sure.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by steve B

Rubbish! The other two I'm active in have less anonymity than we have here.

Slipshod groups with no interest in truth and civility, sure.

That's funny. I'm on almost every trading card forum there is and I don't post any differently here than I do in all the ones with anonymity. This has gotten way off topic though. Which is what Leon intended, I'm sure, since there was a little heat on him in this thread. It's a tactic I've seen him use many times. Derailment. And for the record, I don't have any personal issues with Leon. He seems like a good guy just trying to get by in this crazy world. I just find him a little... inconsistent, sometimes.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

it is not “so weird.” I bet it was 10 years that I lurked on this board before registering. I just didn’t feel comfortable handing over personal info just to talk about baseball cards. after I semi-retired and had more time on my hands, I decided to go ahead and register. I never thought about registering under a fake name, but I can understand why someone would do it.

as for The inconsistencies, that is one of the consistencies of this board. there are a large number of members who routinely post opinions with no name on their posts. oldjudge has more than 3000 posts and is quite active praising and bashing companies and people yet none of his posts currently contain his name. I don’t mind the rule now, and when I did, I chose not to post. it would be nice if the rule was enforced for everyone, especially when it is touted all the time.

[pokerplyr80]

This thread is an unfortunate example of what's wrong with this site. Way too much negativity and guys complaining about everything. Now people have a problem with where Leon gets advertising money from to support this free site? If it bothers you that much go find another free site to complain about. See how long it takes you to get banned if you complain about their advertisers and how the owner conducts his or her business.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The logic of the argument kind of reminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself, to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and than questions the manner in which I provide it.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Jim65

GUU is a ghost town because of every reason you mention. Its a shame and Ken doesn't seem to care at all. That has pushed me to the Facebook groups which are much better anyway.

Learned all I needed to know about the "new Ken Goldin" when he had a number of autographed jerseys in his first auction where the jerseys were bootlegs. When I informed him of this, he said he didn't care that the jerseys were fakes so long as the autographs were real.

[Goudey77]

The mob mentality and social media harassment is a big cultural problem.
I have recently been attacked via my Instagram page for displaying PSA cards. I get it in the form of comments and personal direct messages.
It wouldnt surprise me if this behavior keeps up we'll soon see physical altercations at card shows in the near future.
If you want to be an internet tough guy then I welcome you to bring that same voice in the real world. Just give me one guy to say something...

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

That's funny. I'm on almost every trading card forum there is and I don't post any differently here than I do in all the ones with anonymity. This has gotten way off topic though. Which is what Leon intended, I'm sure, since there was a little heat on him in this thread. It's a tactic I've seen him use many times. Derailment. And for the record, I don't have any personal issues with Leon. He seems like a good guy just trying to get by in this crazy world. I just find him a little... inconsistent, sometimes.

John, what are you trying to hide by not using your real name? What are you afraid of? I belong to many trading card forums and dozens of other websites, but I have never considered registering under a fake name.

BTW, it is nice that you allow Leon to advertise your Reddit site for free.

Rick

[CobbSpikedMe]

Honestly it's been so long since I registered here I don't remember what info I needed to provide to do so. But I can't imagine I had to give any sensitive info like SSN or credit card info. So what's so scary about registering with you're real name? I don't know, I guess I don't get it.

[calvindog]

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

[Leon]

Would you rather have this site be totally anonymous?

Originally Posted by calvindog

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Leon

Would you rather have this site be totally anonymous?

Wouldn't you accomplish the same thing by keeping that info for yourself. Forcing people to literally have it public seems only to give others who could have ulterior motives, access to information on people they don't need or deserve. Everything would be exactly the same if our identities were only know by you.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Honestly it's been so long since I registered here I don't remember what info I needed to provide to do so. But I can't imagine I had to give any sensitive info like SSN or credit card info. So what's so scary about registering with you're real name? I don't know, I guess I don't get it.

Do you understand what you can do to someone having just their name.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

Never had my life destroyed. Have had my eBay account screwed with, got my share of racist, homophobic, profanity filled PMs/emails. I also know a scum bag sellers lawyer. That was just from fellow forum members.

I still like the name rule even if it has been used by the scum to intimidate the good guy(s) calling them out.

[barrysloate]

Whether or not you remain anonymous on a chat board is a double edged sword. In some places, if you post an opinion on something controversial, such as politics or gun control, you are very likely to receive death threats from someone who disagrees with you. And this of course can be very upsetting. On the other hand, if you are allowed to post anonymously, you can pretty much say any crazy thing you want, with no consequences. If you have to put your identity out there, you are more likely to post in an intelligent matter. We tend to be more reasoned and careful with what we say with our names out in the open.

You won't get any death threats on Net54, although we did have one poster who used to wish people a painful death when they challenged him, so that was an exception. He has since passed away. I prefer having my name posted, and don't like when others are anonymous. I've had my share of arguments on the board, but I won't respond to any attacks if that person is anonymous.

Leon's rule is if you offer an opinion on a person or business that is negative, you need to have your name out. I agree with that completely, but I know not everyone else does.

[buymycards]

My thought has always been that if you don't have the balls to put your name by your post, then don't post it.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Whether or not you remain anonymous on a chat board is a double edged sword. In some places, if you post an opinion on something controversial, such as politics or gun control, you are very likely to receive death threats from someone who disagrees with you. And this of course can be very upsetting. On the other hand, if you are allowed to post anonymously, you can pretty much say any crazy thing you want, with no consequences. If you have to put your identity out there, you are more likely to post in an intelligent matter. We tend to be more reasoned and careful with what we say with our names out in the open.

You won't get any death threats on Net54, although we did have one poster who used to wish people a painful death when they challenged him, so that was an exception. He has since passed away. I prefer having my name posted, and don't like when others are anonymous. I've had my share of arguments on the board, but I won't respond to any attacks if that person is anonymous.

Leon's rule is if you offer an opinion on a person or business that is negative, you need to have your name out. I agree with that completely, but I know not everyone else does.

Yes. The Brucii. I will say no more because I have previously made my feelings about him well known. I also agree that you need to take personal responsibility for your posts if you are posting on a controversial topic or being negative. IMO, that is only fair. If you don't want to play, don't post. Pretty simple.