T206 Titus and Bliss *cancelled*

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Come on, this is not like grandma coming on here with a box full of her late husband's cards that included Wagner, Plank, Doyle, etc. and sold them to the first person who offered her $100.

This is a person who by his own introductory post the other day said,

"Got my first tobacco card at 12, next at 16, a few more at 20, and been on the hunt pretty actively since I turned 24 (I'm 27 now...dad is still at it, going to be 91 in December)."

So he knows enough about tobacco cards that he isn't a total newbie. He could look on eBay or CardTarget for current pricing, but he didn't. I'm sure he didn't "lose" money on the deal, meaning, I'm sure he sold it for as much or more than he originally paid for it.

Obviously, he was unaware of the Titus phenomenon....., but he did agree to the sale. Integrity is something that is hard to earn back. If I made the same mistake, I would honor the deal. It may be worth more than a couple hundred bucks.

This post tells a lot more than people are realizing. I find it amazing so many people are on his side and it just makes me think people are mad they didn't see it first.

It's a regular board member that got the deal, so what most people are saying is it's okay to break a BST rule to help out someone, who is going to end up making a lot more money off the card, as opposed to a regular board member being the one that gets it. Either way, someone is getting screwed and it seems to be the long-time board member.

This person said they have been reading for a month, collecting much longer, so they aren't a rookie, they are just new to the board. They obviously got a great deal from someone else, yet no one is calling for them to give that person half the money. I said it, but it was as a joke to show how ridiculous this is.

People are also okay with this "rookie" backing out on his first deal on the board and letting him keep selling? Seriously? How is that for the betterment of the board?

This thread is really a bunch of people mad they didn't see the card first and they aren't thinking out what really happened, which is a long-time member getting screwed by other board members and a new person getting away easy with breaking a rule. That's besides all the other people who broke rules by getting involved.

I seriously can't believe how many people are on his side in this.

[Louieman]

Alright, I need to respond to the last post. First off, I feel like total s#!t that this happened. And I apologized personally to the first buyer. This was my mistake, I admit it. But I am not some seasoned vet trying to escape punishment. This is literally the first card I've ever attempt to sell in my life. ever! I've been casually collecting since I was 12, in the sense that I've picked up a card here or there over the years. I have a total of 16 cards in my entire collection.

I truly truly didn't know about the Titus hype, and so I messed up. And like I said, I'll take my punishment and not sell on this board. Ban for me months if you want. After all this, I most definitely don't wanna be involved in this kind of thing. And I'm not secretly selling this card behind people's backs. I'll sell it on my own, independent of this forum...

I messed up, and I'm sorry. And I'm very sorry to the first buyer. I sure as heck don't wanna get involved in this kind of thing for at least the near future after all of the drama that came with it

[Leon]

So I just read the 52 posts in this thread. Tough call. Good points on all sides. There is a lot of precedence though. I have always said (and you guys know it) if someone backs out of "a" deal and no one is out any money then we chalk it up as a mistake. The seller isn't getting banishment or anything from me. However, when I make a mistake I try to make it right. If I were him I would at least consider selling it at half of market price if Todd would want it at that? That way damages are mitigated on both sides. Otherwise, the rules are in place. Now if someone repeatedly makes mistakes or scams or stuff like that, then they will be out of here.

[pgellis]

I'm sorry, but a mistake is when you type in $40.00 when you meant to type in $400.00 or when you show the incorrect photo of a card with a listing. This was not a mistake, but rather the seller's "unawareness" of the current market for T206 Titus cards. To me, that's "too bad".

What if he was selling a Jack Knight card with a Lenox back for $ 40.00 and made a "mistake" by not describing the back? Then he agrees to a sale and someone else says, "can I get a scan of the back?" Wait, what? You made a mistake, that card is worth $ 400.00. You should cancel the sale.

I feel people are giving him a break because he is new to the site and is only 27 years old. That's old enough to do 3 minutes of research on the current market for the cards you want to sell.

This was not a simple mistake. If nobody butted in and notified him of the Titus market, he would have been happy with the sale. He agreed to the sale.....not a mistake. That doesn't say much for any integrity here. But that is probably fine since he's going to sell the card for big bucks.

Does anyone else get the sense that the card is already sold? I'm sure it's already "in the mail".

[veleno45]

I do not get the sense the card was already sold. I get a sense that the seller made a mistake, and is asking for a mulligan. The fact that he is 27 does not matter. He is not a seasoned vet like many people here, nor am I for that matter. That is nothing to be ashamed of. The t206 set has so many twists and turns it may take years to fully understand it. I know I certainly make mistakes which is why I am here trying to learn more.

Is it wrong to renege on a deal? Of course it is. But I think it is also wrong to make such a huge deal about it when it is not a trend, it is an occurrence. He made a mistake, he has publicly apologized, personally apologized to the wronged, and banned himself from the b/s/t. Do we want to force him to sell the card at that price? How does that make anyone feel good about the hobby.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by veleno45

I do not get the sense the card was already sold. I get a sense that the seller made a mistake, and is asking for a mulligan. The fact that he is 27 does not matter. He is not a seasoned vet like many people here, nor am I for that matter. That is nothing to be ashamed of. The t206 set has so many twists and turns it may take years to fully understand it. I know I certainly make mistakes which is why I am here trying to learn more.

Is it wrong to renege on a deal? Of course it is. But I think it is also wrong to make such a huge deal about it when it is not a trend, it is an occurrence. He made a mistake, he has publicly apologized, personally apologized to the wronged, and banned himself from the b/s/t. Do we want to force him to sell the card at that price? How does that make anyone feel good about the hobby.

Well stated...and I agree!

[freakhappy]

Move on, Phil. Will you be able to sleep better tonight if we force him to sell the card? Is it better if we make him sell it for $30 and let Todd resell it for $400? Would that settle the score? Just relax and move on.


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[pgellis]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Move on, Phil. Will you be able to sleep better tonight if we force him to sell the card? Is it better if we make him sell it for $30 and let Todd resell it for $400? Would that settle the score? Just relax and move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes Mikey, that would make me feel better. Is it all about the money? What about honor? Who said Todd would re-sell it? It's all about the money to a lot of people on here and yes, that does surprise me.

Mikey, would you feel differently if the OP sold it to someone who contacted him off-line the other night and didn't give the "first buyer" the chance to match it? Because that's what I feel has happened here.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by veleno45

I do not get the sense the card was already sold. I get a sense that the seller made a mistake, and is asking for a mulligan. The fact that he is 27 does not matter. He is not a seasoned vet like many people here, nor am I for that matter. That is nothing to be ashamed of. The t206 set has so many twists and turns it may take years to fully understand it. I know I certainly make mistakes which is why I am here trying to learn more.

Is it wrong to renege on a deal? Of course it is. But I think it is also wrong to make such a huge deal about it when it is not a trend, it is an occurrence. He made a mistake, he has publicly apologized, personally apologized to the wronged, and banned himself from the b/s/t. Do we want to force him to sell the card at that price? How does that make anyone feel good about the hobby.

+1

[bbcard1]

I would have used it as an upgrade and not resold it. And to be honest his sense of an apology basically is, "I know I agreed to it, but rookie mistake on my part, sucks for you" which didn't really give me warm and fuzzies. He absolutely did accept the deal just cancelled it after the fact. By way of explanation, I think most on this board agree that Titus is a tulip bulb run up by over speculation. In fact I would rate it as the most likely card in the set to lose value which is why I jumped on it at a low price. actually thought it was a nice 2 until rechecking the listing but knew it would not last long so I jumped on it soon as I saw it. I have one I bought last year ironically for 60 that is OC top to bottom so it will work fine.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Yes Mikey, that would make me feel better. Is it all about the money? What about honor? Who said Todd would re-sell it? It's all about the money to a lot of people on here and yes, that does surprise me.



Mikey, would you feel differently if the OP sold it to someone who contacted him off-line the other night and didn't give the "first buyer" the chance to match it? Because that's what I feel has happened here.

Do you really think Todd would be this upset if he wasn't going to resell it? Really? Sure, he might keep it, but I've noticed he mentioned it in another thread so that tells me he's pretty steamed and he was ready to make some money and that doesn't bother me at all...but it seems obvious to me.

I don't give a rat's a** that he backed out of the deal...good for him. I hate to see anyone get the short end of the stick, even if it was his fault.

I like "mikey"...makes me feel like a kid again


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[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I would have used it as an upgrade and not resold it. And to be honest his sense of an apology basically is, "I know I agreed to it, but rookie mistake on my part, sucks for you" which didn't really give me warm and fuzzies.

I completely believe you, Todd and I feel for you on this one. When I saw the thread I clicked on it quickly to see what it was all about and noticed you had claimed them. I will tell you the truth, I never had a chance to think about what I would have done in this situation...but only had a chance to reply after everything had been done. If the op had this card for $200 it would not have been a big deal to me, but for pennies, it made sense to let him know about it...nothing personal.




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[Bored5000]

I sympathize with both the seller and the buyer, but I think the OP does deserve a mulligan as long as it never happens again. One thing I really like about this message board is that it is largely not as cutthroat as the hobby can be.

I would probably feel differently if the card would have been offered at 75 percent of its value or half its value. WRT the "honor" of the deal, wouldn't "honor" also come into play when buying a card for barely 10 percent of its value because the seller did not know what he had? I don't know either the buyer or the seller, but 10-15 percent of the card's value just feels wrong to me.

[frankbmd]

Not a lot of bliss in this thread. By the way what happened with the Bliss card?

[ullmandds]

Frank...when I saw your name I thought a song or poem was imminent...I must say I'm quite...disappointed!!!

[The Nasty Nati]

I feel for the seller. I wouldn't want to undersell something by $350.

[bobbyw8469]

Is the Titus still available for $60?

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Is the Titus still available for $60?

I really hope you aren't being serious, Bobby.

[bobbyw8469]

:-p

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

:-p

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I sympathize with both the seller amd the buyer, but I think the OP does deserve a mulligan as long as it never happens again. One thing I really like about this message board is that it is largely not as cutthroat as the hobby can be.

I would probably feel differently if the card would have been offered at 75 percent of its value or half its value. WRT the "honor" of the deal, wouldn't "honor" also come into play when buying a card for barely 10 percent of its value because the seller did not know what he had? I don't know either the buyer or the seller, but 10-15 percent of the card's value just feels wrong to me.

I fully agree.

Hope Loiueman sticks around and isn't totally put off my drama, just or not (They're just cards!!!!!). He seems like a nice guy that made an honest mistake... Plus selfishly, I'd love to see more active members in my immediate area.

[pgellis]

I sure hope the "Price Patrol" is working on a Friday......making sure there are no bargains for any potential buyers.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I sure hope the "Price Patrol" is working on a Friday......making sure there are no bargains for any potential buyers.

I feel that a large part of this forum is to educate collectors. I was glad to see someone step in and point out that this guy had seriously undervalued his Titus card. We have a new poster listing what he believes are two ordinary commons and not realizing that Titus has been carrying a premium (for reasons often contemplated on this board).

Many of us know about the various ways to check sales histories but this guy has been here a month. He probably has no idea what cardtarget or VCP means. I feel like not letting him know this information in this particular instance would be taking advantage of him.

I'm not pointing out who is right and who is wrong in this particular situation. I just hate to see people bashing a guy over a lack of knowledge. He's just started here and already some are trying to run him off.

This is my opinion.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by ZachS

I feel that a large part of this forum is to educate collectors. I was glad to see someone step in and point out that this guy had seriously undervalued his Titus card. We have a new poster listing what he believes are two ordinary commons and not realizing that Titus has been carrying a premium (for reasons often contemplated on this board).

Many of us know about the various ways to check sales histories but this guy has been here a month. He probably has no idea what cardtarget or VCP means. I feel like not letting him know this information in this particular instance would be taking advantage of him.

I'm not pointing out who is right and who is wrong in this particular situation. I just hate to see people bashing a guy over a lack of knowledge. He's just started here and already some are trying to run him off.

This is my opinion.

I agree. I like this place because for the most part, we look out for each other and do small favors for one another. Most people are courteous and don't take advantage of the lax rules on the b/s/t and each other. This forum is a much better place than the entire marketplace of our hobby. I know there are plenty of cold, calculated business decisions made in the hobby. I just like it better when they happen on ebay or somewhere other than our forum.
This is more of a general commentary than a reaction to this thread. I'm not bashing Todd. I have had plenty of good dealings with him, and he contributes a lot to the forum.

[pgellis]

I'm willing to end the conversation from my end if the OP can prove he didn't sell it to someone else off-line. Most of you think he still has it, I don't. Let's see a photo of the card from the OP with today's or tomorrow's newspaper.

[bbcard1]

I think that the forum is the place for education, the B/S/T section is the place for commerce. Actually at the top of the section it says "Net54baseball Buy/Sell/Trade Section (must login, caveat emptor)" which means, loosely, let the buyer beware. I would assume that would extend to the seller as well, but apparently a fair number of people would disagree.

Had the OP come on to the forum and asked for information about the Titus, I would have been happy to have chimed in.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I'm willing to end the conversation from my end if the OP can prove he didn't sell it to someone else off-line. Most of you think he still has it, I don't. Let's see a photo of the card from the OP with today's or tomorrow's newspaper.

It's not a crime if he did sell it. Maybe it would reflect poorly on his baseball card chat room etiquette (which probably has little/nothing to with most peoples' real life issues) and if so, so be it. I personally trust he still has it, and also believe he's under no obligation to further prove he has it.

[wolf441]

'Nuff Ced!!

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

It's not a crime if he did sell it. Maybe it would reflect poorly on his baseball card chat room etiquette (which probably has little/nothing to with most peoples' real life issues) and if so, so be it. I personally trust he still has it, and also believe he's under no obligation to further prove he has it.

That's the problem with today's world. I screw you, no problem, my mommy says I'm great.
What happened to civility?
Someone told me that I should get more money and someone actually offered me more money and I accepted it. No problem . I deserve it.

Let's see a photo.

It's OK to reneg and then sell it off-line? Bull

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by pgellis

That's the problem with today's world. I screw you, no problem, my mommy says I'm great.
What happened to civility?
Someone told me that I should get more money and someone actually offered me more money and I accepted it. No problem . I deserve it.

Let's see a photo.

It's OK to reneg and then sell it off-line? Bull

The Titus T-206 spike has been over the last couple years. Instead of listing what the OP thought was a market value, I guess the OP should have gone the eBay museum route and listed the card for an astronomical, over the moon BIN price and just slowly lowered the price until he had a bite.

Paying 10-15 percent of market value without divulging to the OP what he had just seems like taking advantage of someone, IMO.

[pgellis]

He said, "Sold". Or that much. When he said sold, was he under duress? No. He was happy with his decision.


Let's see a photo. It's OK to screw the first buyer? Where do your loyalties lie?

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pgellis

He said, "Sold". Or that much. When he said sold, was he under duress? No. He was happy with his decision.


Let's see a photo. It's OK to screw the first buyer? Where do your loyalties lie?

From another perspective it is the first buyer who is screwing the seller.

It's a rather moot point.

[pgellis]

Thanks Sean, I was waiting until you butted in again. Have you received your Titus in the mail yet?

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Thanks Sean, I was waiting until you butted in again. Have you received your Titus in the mail yet?

I did not purchase the cards.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by pgellis

That's the problem with today's world. I screw you, no problem, my mommy says I'm great.

My life and my upbringing are nothing like what you're insinuating as "today's world". Your comment frankly pisses me off. I've worked and competed every step of the way.

There are seriously way bigger things going on in the world. First off, hopefully your, and all of our lives. Beyond that, we've got an airline being downed by a SAM.. We've got countless wars. I don't mean to get way off topic, but I have no idea how something like this here, that seems so clearly an honest mistake without intent to deceive, can create so much vitriol. I feel bad for the buyer too and hope he and the seller can quietly patch things up.. but it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

[pgellis]

I think it is. I think honor is a thing of the past. No one is responsible for themselves anymore.
Comparing this to a a plane crash is a crazy leap that I can't help you with.

Really, it's OK to sell it to someone else who offered more off-line? That is gutless. Tell me that didn't happen.

[t206trader]

I think everyone has made their views pretty clear...

[pgellis]

Very cute Brandon. Thanks for clarifying everything. I'd love to see a current photo of the card and then you won't see another post from me in this thread.

[pgellis]

I love how everyone thinks it's fine to agree with a deal on this site and then when alerted to current markets, feel that it's OK to sell off/line to someone else. That someone who probably still under-paid to true market value.

Still waiting for the current photo.

[Sean1125]

Todd, drop me a line I will give you your choice of t206 free from a rather large list.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Todd, drop me a line I will give you your choice of t206 free from a rather large list.

That solves everything. Must be some guilt...

[Eric72]

Wow…I don’t believe I have ever seen a BST thread with so many posts.
This is an interesting discussion, with quite a few valid points made on both sides of the debate.

If I were the seller, I would honor the original sale price and move on. But that’s just me. There are many things in life (and, daresay, the hobby) more important than a few hundred bucks.

I understand how suboptimal it is to miss out on a profit-maximizing opportunity; however, we’re not talking about a truly significant amount of money here. In no way, shape, or form is this similar to a little old lady selling a T206 Wagner for $100. This transaction would not disrupt anyone’s retirement income.

And what I have said above doesn’t address the value of one’s reputation…which, in my humble opinion, is worth far more than the OP could ever hope to gain from this one transaction.

As for the (relative) lack of sales experience the OP has and the helpful nature of this online community, I simply say this. If the OP reached out to board members before traipsing into the BST, things would have been decidedly different…but he didn’t. I am willing to give him a pass…this one time. We all start at the beginning, and should learn along the way. I truly hope he does…and hope that he stays on the board.

Just my two cents…I’m sure there are those who disagree and I welcome their comments.

Best regards,

Eric

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by pgellis

That solves everything. Must be some guilt...

You are right. If not for me letting the seller know what it was worth he would have had the deal. I will reiterate I did not purchase the cards or receive them in any way.

[wazoo]

Just give it a rest. Were supposed to be a tight community here. We help each other learn from our mistakes. We introduce new members to ways on how to check the value of cards so they don't make the same mistake again. Yeah maybe a couple hundred isn't significant to one person but it could be to another. I think that transactions should not be canceled, but I feel that this is an exception. No one lost any money on the transaction. Honestly I wouldn't feel happy taking the card of person for a small fraction of what it's actually worth. If it's eBay that's a different story, but honesty it should just be a teaching lesson.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Just give it a rest. Were supposed to be a tight community here. We help each other learn from our mistakes. We introduce new members to ways on how to check the value of cards so they don't make the same mistake again. Yeah maybe a couple hundred isn't significant to one person but it could be to another. I think that transactions should not be canceled, but I feel that this is an exception. No one lost any money on the transaction. Honestly I wouldn't feel happy taking the card of person for a small fraction of what it's actually worth. If it's eBay that's a different story, but honesty it should just be a teaching lesson.

Wazoo...quit sucking up to the greater good...you're such a mooch!



Phil, it seems from your posts that you didn't receive a good night's rest last night...nothing personal, but to be this passionate and deep about something that really isn't that big of a deal is making you seem way off base here. I love your passion for integrity and rules, but sometimes there are exceptions and this is one case IMO...you don't have to agree, but it seems more than not, do agree. And to be quite honest, you are reminding me a lot of a fella called Bill Holler that has been frequenting the main boards lately and won't go away. I know you are better than this, and maybe after your deep slumber you will wake up and realize IT WASN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL...



PS: I really dig your SGC 50's and better T206 collection...I'd love to see a pic of them someday.



Sean...are you giving Net54 members a discount at your booth at the National? I didn't see anything in your signature line about it...

[Louieman]

Here's the photo pgellis requested...included his post so it dates the photo...couldn't post this earlier, had a busy day...

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Thanks Sean, I was waiting until you butted in again. Have you received your Titus in the mail yet?

oops

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Louieman

Here's the photo pgellis requested...included his post so it dates the photo...couldn't post this earlier, had a busy day...

It's lame that it had to come that this, but props to Louieman for proving he's got the card and hopefully ending this thread.

pgellis, I know it was a ridiculous leap from Titus to a plane crash, but that's how ridiculous I felt the animosity and accusations in this thread were. Curious why/how you were so certain that Louieman had sold this card, but very glad to see he didn't... and to see some faith in humanity restored. It was an honest mistake. No one was robbed of their money, no one set out to deceive, no one died. That's good enough for me. Now move on.

[pgellis]

Mike, you are correct......I didn't get much sleep all week and was rather cranky all week. For some reason this really got to me..........but as I promised, once I saw the photo I will let this go.

This will be my last post in this thread. I believe more in honor and integrity than money........but that's just me.

[frankbmd]

That duct tape on the iPad looks awfully suspicious.