SGC Going Away?

[perezfan]

A good chunk of the YouTube Card community seems to feel SGC will inevitably be gone within 18 months. This widespread speculation was based on an off-the-cuff comment made by a prominent PSA-centric YouTube Content Creator.

To me, it seems like a serious knee-jerk reaction to one person's opinion. But it has spread like wildfire, and there are multiple videos posted in which people express some very thoughtful reasoning and opinions. I suppose nobody but the Collectors Execs know for sure, but I am really hoping these pundits are wrong.

Given the conglomeration of highly advanced collectors and the centuries of combined experience in this forum... I figured this would be the place to discuss it.

So what do you think? Is Collectors going to phase out SGC anytime soon, or is the SGC brand here to stay?

[Kutcher55]

These content creators love to hear themselves talk. One guy with a pretty good following makes 40 minute videos seemingly every other day to make the simplest point imaginable. I can only imagine how his wife tolerates him. What an angel she must be.

[rand1com]

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.

PSA will eventually do away with the SGC brand and utilize their capacity to grade and encapsulate for PSA brand.

It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

[Directly]

that will be an improvement turn over times from months to 10 days!

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by rand1com

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.

PSA will eventually do away with the SGC brand and utilize their capacity to grade and encapsulate for PSA brand.

It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

Sadly, this is the most likely scenario. I’ve seen it personally in multiple companies. The process likely began the moment it was purchased.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by rand1com

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.

PSA will eventually do away with the SGC brand and utilize their capacity to grade and encapsulate for PSA brand.

It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

It definitely makes sense to keep SGC around.

Lots of ownership groups keep two brands alive (think Cabela's and Bass Pro). They do it for good reason. Having two industry leaders under your control insulates your top brand from competition. Think of it like this: SGC provides a buffer for PSA from the likes of BGS and CGC. Keeping #2 in the fold means those other companies have to compete with SGC for market share. PSA can cruise along at altitude above the fray and never really face a serious threat.

Collectors would be stupid to do away with SGC......so they probably will.

[JustinD]

I honestly don’t see them shutting down SGC. They are getting money either way and it pays to show competition in the market whether real or not when it’s owned by one group.

What I do see is the pricing structure changing to be more similar to PSA over time. They will want to bring the cash flow in line with their other holdings. They are likely attempting a registry behind the scenes as it doesn’t take a genius to understand the impact that competition makes towards the increased value of PSA cards. Once a registry is launched and other similar features as the PSA product it will bring the excuse for the pricing change.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by rand1com

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.

It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

Seems more efficient to only have the one brand if they own SGC anyway.

[parkplace33]

Can you imagine if this did happen and SGC stopped grading cards tomorrow? Goodness, lots of upset people.

[notfast]

SGC is churning out record numbers.

It makes absolutely zero sense to make them go away and there is zero chance some random YouTube content creator has any insight about something like this happening in the first place.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by rand1com

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.



PSA will eventually do away with the SGC brand and utilize their capacity to grade and encapsulate for PSA brand.



It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

Why?

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[polakoff]

Originally Posted by rand1com

My opinion only, not based on any inside information.

PSA will eventually do away with the SGC brand and utilize their capacity to grade and encapsulate for PSA brand.

It really makes no sense for them to maintain the two brands long term.

You might as well say:

Nike will eventually do away with the Converse brand and utilize their capacity to design and produce sneakers for the Nike brand.

Large corporations more frequently than not own "competing" brands within the same industry. There are a number of reasons for it, including the illusion of choice. Like, while you're debating whether to buy Crest vs. Oral-B, or Cascade vs. Dawn, or Tide vs. Gain, Proctor and Gamble doesn't care because in all cases they own both brands.

[Snowman]

They're not going to shut down SGC. This is nonsense.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They're not going to shut down SGC. This is nonsense.

Exactly.

"Nuf Sed" McGreevy.

PS You Tube Card Community? YTCC..... sounds like PWCC

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

These content creators love to hear themselves talk. One guy with a pretty good following makes 40 minute videos seemingly every other day to make the simplest point imaginable. I can only imagine how his wife tolerates him. What an angel she must be.

Who?

[Vintagedeputy]

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

Collectors Universe (owner of PSA) bought SGC so technically if you're having cards slabbed by SGC, the cash flow goes back to the owners of PSA.

And what kind of discount do people think they'd get on SGC slabbed cards if SGC went away?

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

Me neither. CSG!!

[hawaiian bam bam]

Iceberg! straight ahead!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

Not sure I follow this argument. Both PSA and SGC are part of the same larger company. Any cash you pay to SGC ends up in the same bank account as any cash you pay to PSA.

But maybe it feels less icky if your credit card statement says SGC instead of saying PSA?

[Johnny630]

From what I remember hearing this has not happened because PSA will not cross SGC Cards over as same grade.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

Agreed! +1
And every dime you send to SGC is a public vote against PSA, providing more and more reasons for PSA to keep their own brand separate from that of SGC even if they are jointly owned.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

And it's getting so that I can't really stand to give SGC any more $ either. My last submission (well documented on these boards) was a complete exercise in stupidity and inconsistency.

Soon going to be down to CGC as the last resort for card grading.........

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If SGC goes away, I’ll stop getting cards graded because I just can’t stomach. the idea of giving PSA one dime.

+1

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

These content creators love to hear themselves talk. One guy with a pretty good following makes 40 minute videos seemingly every other day to make the simplest point imaginable. I can only imagine how his wife tolerates him. What an angel she must be.

Not to make this about YouTube but I've thougt the same thing about this same YouTube channel. I've stopped watching pretty much all of them as it's just the same thing, rinse and repeat on every channel of the YouTube circle of friends.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Not to make this about YouTube but I've thougt the same thing about this same YouTube channel. I've stopped watching pretty much all of them as it's just the same thing, rinse and repeat on every channel of the YouTube circle of friends.

This x 1000!

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[tjisonline]

This is definitely the YouTube topic of the week.

I think it’s pretty obvious regarding the future of SGC and it prob doesn’t require a 5 minute video let alone anything longer. The days of SGC’s day to day operations as we (the customers) know it is about to change. The writing has been on the wall since Day 1 of the acquisition.

- SGC hasn’t done anything with their website & app since the collectors acquisition announcement.
- They did not grade on site at the national last year.
- SGC’s grading has become somewhat inconsistent to mirror PSA. min size not met anyone?
- The face of SGC (Peter) has been awfully quiet since the announcement outside of a few videos (increase turnaround times and the gem mint 1961 Wilt Chamberlain)
- For those of us who have been through acquisitions, usually takes between 18 and 24 months to see noticeable changes. Headcount reductions, elimination of duplicate processes, location closures, decisions, whether to eliminate / merge branding, integration of HR systems, etc..

In a perfect world which this isn’t, current Collectors & PSA leadership should allow SGC to do all vintage grading and holder everything in the PSA slab (NJ & Cali locations). I don’t think this will happen because the current leadership at PSA clearly DO NOT VALUE vintage submissions. Why? The majority of their revenue (via Gemrate data) clearly comes from modern submission (& it's not even close). In fact, I’ll take it a step further to say vintage probably causes them a lot of headaches (so many old PSA slabs contain trimmed & overgraded cards that prob causes ample card guarantee payouts)

regardless if SGC is still around or not in the future, not sure it matters. this isn't the SGC we grown to love. Some other folks would prob prefer it to cease instead of turning into another Beckett

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

This is definitely the YouTube topic of the week.

I think it’s pretty obvious regarding the future of SGC and it prob doesn’t require a 5 minute video let alone anything longer. The days of SGC’s day to day operations as we (the customers) know it is about to change. The writing has been on the wall since Day 1 of the acquisition.

- SGC hasn’t done anything with their website & app since the collectors acquisition announcement.
- They did not grade on site at the national last year.
- SGC’s grading has become somewhat inconsistent to mirror PSA. min size not met anyone?
- The face of SGC (Peter) has been awfully quiet since the announcement outside of a few videos (increase turnaround times and the gem mint 1961 Wilt Chamberlain)
- For those of us who have been through acquisitions, usually takes between 18 and 24 months to see noticeable changes. Headcount reductions, elimination of duplicate processes, location closures, decisions, whether to eliminate / merge branding, integration of HR systems, etc..

In a perfect world which this isn’t, current Collectors & PSA leadership should allow SGC to do all vintage grading and holder everything in the PSA slab (NJ & Cali locations). I don’t think this will happen because the current leadership at PSA clearly DO NOT VALUE vintage submissions. Why? The majority of their revenue (via Gemrate data) clearly comes from modern submission (& it's not even close). In fact, I’ll take it a step further to say vintage probably causes them a lot of headaches (so many old PSA slabs contain trimmed & overgraded cards that prob causes ample card guarantee payouts)

regardless if SGC is still around or not in the future, not sure it matters. this isn't the SGC we grown to love. Some other folks would prob prefer it to cease instead of turning into another Beckett

I was in the same camp right after the news broke. But with it is now being over a year, I think they do keep both brands.

[Lucas00]

Its one of those things where you just have to say why?

Why would you stop making money from putting cards inside plastic? Paying somebody $20 an hour to put 60 cards in plastic that costs $2 per piece or less (they say tpg graders look at a card for about 1 min each) and charging let's say average of $25 each card would mean 3 or 4 $20/hr employees that handle the cards in their different steps are doing something close to $1500/hr for sgc. Its basically a money factory.

[theshowandme]

I sent this thread and all of the YouTube videos to Nat Turner.

He can save a lot of money hiring people from here and YouTube. He doesn’t need those Harvard business school folks.

[Neal]

Collectors could kill both brands and then come out with a Collectors slab. No one knows .... again, this started with a few youtu.be content creators

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[Lucas00]

I'm sure Travis has insider information like he does with other information from his billionaire friends.

Sarcasm aside, I don't like the idea. And if it ever was a thing (and I'm 99% sure it will never be) it probably wouldn't be in this decade lol.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I'm sure Travis has insider information like he does with other information from his billionaire friends.

Sarcasm aside, I don't like the idea. And if it ever was a thing (and I'm 99% sure it will never be) it probably wouldn't be in this decade lol.

There are huge numbers of PSA loyalists who dominate the set registry, I'd be very surprised if PSA did this just to appease a relatively small segment of SGC collectors.

[JollyElm]

These were my notes regarding CSG from a show a while back...

6. Red Headed Step-Grader
I didn’t run into too many CSG holders, but when I did, their size disparity had them situated unceremoniously in the backs of the boxes of slabs, almost entirely ignored. (Warning! Not a scientific assessment...) You get the general feeling that buyers/sellers don’t yet hold the company in high esteem (meaning, of course, as moneymakers), and I didn’t notice anyone buying the slabs, especially since dealers usually had ‘PSA-worthy prices’ attached to them. That just won’t fly at this point in time.

[OhioLawyerF5]

There was a time in the not-to-distant past when Beckett was the #1 overall grader, and PSA was #2. Thinks can change very quickly.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

There was a time in the not-to-distant past when Beckett was the #1 overall grader, and PSA was #2. Thinks can change very quickly.

I don't buy many graded cards but I see plenty of them at shows, and I don't really remember ever seeing that many cards graded by Beckett compared to PSA. When was Beckett the #1 overall grader?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I'm sure Travis has insider information like he does with other information from his billionaire friends.

Sarcasm aside, I don't like the idea. And if it ever was a thing (and I'm 99% sure it will never be) it probably wouldn't be in this decade lol.

Nat Turner said it himself. Multiple times. They're working on it, but it's not the top priority. No, we're not friends.

I've also seen evidence of that being true by witnessing changes to the backend data on how certain cards are being identified to align with how PSA identifies them. One example is the 1929 Churchman's Babe Ruth. SGC used to put Ruth's name on the flip. They no longer do.

[jchcollins]

After reading this, N54’ers seem just as divided as the YT’ers on the question of SGC’s possible demise.

I don’t know for certain, but I don’t believe it’s likely that anyone in the YT community (including Mike M. “Baseball Collector” who started all this hubub…) have any inside information or reason to be more in the know about Collectors and their plans than anyone here.

I do for my own personal reasons hope that SGC lives, if for no other reason than brand differentiation and above that, true competition in the marketplace is traditionally good for all different type of economies. Including the hobby.

At the end of the day, it’s probably largely a moot point as a graded card in the final analysis is just a holder to me. Should my holder of choice go out of business or otherwise fall out of favor in a matter of months or years - I’ll just start getting different holders.


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[CaramelMan]

As someone who collects all PSA SGC and Beckett in modern and pre-war, i can say it’s very clear which brand gets the premium on a sale…

If there was the same card in psa 10 sgc 10 (9.5) and Beckett 9.5,
The psa sells for considerably more …. PSA is the Cadillac when buyers are concerned and PSA clearly knows this…if SGC is kept, it will be the “second fiddle” in PSAs eyes with lesser fees but less value in the same grade as PSA …

This doesn’t pertain to Old Judge….SGC is the master of this era, but as soon as you get to the monster, PSA gets more dollars for the same grade in Sgc…

It’s not close in my Pujols Rookies 2001… a PSA 10 Pujols 2001 is worth its weight in gold and SGC and Beckett are FAR behind in sale values…Thus the difficulty in psa grading and crossover: they know its worth a lot more in their slab so they have to be TOUGH..

My opinion from a collector who does it all and deals with all…

And even if you “dislike” PSA very much for whatever reason, you can’t deny final sale values…

SGC experts should become the 19th century branch of psa…that’s it

Scott

[Balticfox]

So if SGC is shut down, will SGC graded cards plummet in price?

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

So if SGC is shut down, will SGC graded cards plummet in price?

Plummet? Def no

There is too much value in SGC OJ for the value to “plummet”…

The majority of “old school” collectors of OJ (on this site) won’t care if SGC doesnt slab more cards…they will be content and trade their “old school” graded cards regardless of new inventory…going “defunct” does not negate the decades of expertise overnight..

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Plummet? Def no

There is too much value in SGC OJ for the value to “plummet”…

The majority of “old school” collectors of OJ (on this site) won’t care if SGC doesnt slab more cards…they will be content and trade their “old school” graded cards regardless of new inventory…going “defunct” does not negate the decades of expertise overnight..

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

The obvious key will be having enough active buyers who still want stuff in SGC slabs such that prices continue to be supported. That likely will be the case for 6 months, 2 years, maybe even 5 years out. At some point, whether that’s 10 years or 20 years or more down the line, those collectors will decline due to exiting the hobby, dying off, or forgetting that they ever existed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

I think if SGC goes defunct, there will be a major movement to cross cards in their holders. Not everyone of course. And eventually, people will wonder if SGC cards that come on the market are those that would not cross, which could devalue them. I just don't see a long term robust market for a discontinued brand.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

As someone who collects all PSA SGC and Beckett in modern and pre-war, i can say it’s very clear which brand gets the premium on a sale…

If there was the same card in psa 10 sgc 10 (9.5) and Beckett 9.5,
The psa sells for considerably more …. PSA is the Cadillac when buyers are concerned and PSA clearly knows this…if SGC is kept, it will be the “second fiddle” in PSAs eyes with lesser fees but less value in the same grade as PSA …

This doesn’t pertain to Old Judge….SGC is the master of this era, but as soon as you get to the monster, PSA gets more dollars for the same grade in Sgc…

It’s not close in my Pujols Rookies 2001… a PSA 10 Pujols 2001 is worth its weight in gold and SGC and Beckett are FAR behind in sale values…Thus the difficulty in psa grading and crossover: they know its worth a lot more in their slab so they have to be TOUGH..

My opinion from a collector who does it all and deals with all…

And even if you “dislike” PSA very much for whatever reason, you can’t deny final sale values…

SGC experts should become the 19th century branch of psa…that’s it

Scott

You DO realize that if PSA is left without a viable competitor, they will have absolutely no incentive to perform. Their wait times will get even longer, their prices will escalate even higher, their inconsistency will get even worse, and their dreadful customer service will become non-existent. I'd also bet that we'll see even more crumpled baggies instead of slabs that actually fit the card.

If a monopolistic company has no viable competition, there are no checks and balances to keep them honest. Not good for the hobby (errrr, business), and while it may be good for Collectors (the company), it would be a disaster for collectors of the human variety.

So this is not something that even the most diehard PSA Apologist should celebrate. Things would be worse for everyone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who is their competition now?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is their competition now?

Beckett!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

beckett!!!

lol.

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is their competition now?

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

Yep, and closing a successful business would not be a good idea for the shareholders.