SGC Going Away?

[CaramelMan]

As someone who collects all PSA SGC and Beckett in modern and pre-war, i can say it’s very clear which brand gets the premium on a sale…

If there was the same card in psa 10 sgc 10 (9.5) and Beckett 9.5,
The psa sells for considerably more …. PSA is the Cadillac when buyers are concerned and PSA clearly knows this…if SGC is kept, it will be the “second fiddle” in PSAs eyes with lesser fees but less value in the same grade as PSA …

This doesn’t pertain to Old Judge….SGC is the master of this era, but as soon as you get to the monster, PSA gets more dollars for the same grade in Sgc…

It’s not close in my Pujols Rookies 2001… a PSA 10 Pujols 2001 is worth its weight in gold and SGC and Beckett are FAR behind in sale values…Thus the difficulty in psa grading and crossover: they know its worth a lot more in their slab so they have to be TOUGH..

My opinion from a collector who does it all and deals with all…

And even if you “dislike” PSA very much for whatever reason, you can’t deny final sale values…

SGC experts should become the 19th century branch of psa…that’s it

Scott

[Balticfox]

So if SGC is shut down, will SGC graded cards plummet in price?

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

So if SGC is shut down, will SGC graded cards plummet in price?

Plummet? Def no

There is too much value in SGC OJ for the value to “plummet”…

The majority of “old school” collectors of OJ (on this site) won’t care if SGC doesnt slab more cards…they will be content and trade their “old school” graded cards regardless of new inventory…going “defunct” does not negate the decades of expertise overnight..

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Plummet? Def no

There is too much value in SGC OJ for the value to “plummet”…

The majority of “old school” collectors of OJ (on this site) won’t care if SGC doesnt slab more cards…they will be content and trade their “old school” graded cards regardless of new inventory…going “defunct” does not negate the decades of expertise overnight..

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

The obvious key will be having enough active buyers who still want stuff in SGC slabs such that prices continue to be supported. That likely will be the case for 6 months, 2 years, maybe even 5 years out. At some point, whether that’s 10 years or 20 years or more down the line, those collectors will decline due to exiting the hobby, dying off, or forgetting that they ever existed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

I think if SGC goes defunct, there will be a major movement to cross cards in their holders. Not everyone of course. And eventually, people will wonder if SGC cards that come on the market are those that would not cross, which could devalue them. I just don't see a long term robust market for a discontinued brand.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think if SGC goes defunct, there will be a major movement to cross cards in their holders. Not everyone of course. And eventually, people will wonder if SGC cards that come on the market are those that would not cross, which could devalue them. I just don't see a long term robust market for a discontinued brand.

Yes, this is precisely what would happen. SGC prices would decline at a rate proportional to the probability of them crossing over to PSA slabs in the same grade. As time goes on, that probability gets lower and lower. Unfortunately though, since PSA has moved to the goal posts ~2 full grades lower for most cards, that means almost nothing crosses over these days already. So something would have to change fast to keep their prices from plummeting rather quickly. It won't take long for every youtuber to realize that they went 1 for 15 on crossovers, and that's not an exaggeration.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, this is precisely what would happen. SGC prices would decline at a rate proportional to the probability of them crossing over to PSA slabs in the same grade. As time goes on, that probability gets lower and lower. Unfortunately though, since PSA has moved to the goal posts ~2 full grades lower for most cards, that means almost nothing crosses over these days already. So something would have to change fast to keep their prices from plummeting rather quickly. It won't take long for every youtuber to realize that they went 1 for 15 on crossovers, and that's not an exaggeration.

I am sure favored insiders would do fine on crossovers, and maybe that is already happening. The common man though? Uh, probably not.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

As someone who collects all PSA SGC and Beckett in modern and pre-war, i can say it’s very clear which brand gets the premium on a sale…

If there was the same card in psa 10 sgc 10 (9.5) and Beckett 9.5,
The psa sells for considerably more …. PSA is the Cadillac when buyers are concerned and PSA clearly knows this…if SGC is kept, it will be the “second fiddle” in PSAs eyes with lesser fees but less value in the same grade as PSA …

This doesn’t pertain to Old Judge….SGC is the master of this era, but as soon as you get to the monster, PSA gets more dollars for the same grade in Sgc…

It’s not close in my Pujols Rookies 2001… a PSA 10 Pujols 2001 is worth its weight in gold and SGC and Beckett are FAR behind in sale values…Thus the difficulty in psa grading and crossover: they know its worth a lot more in their slab so they have to be TOUGH..

My opinion from a collector who does it all and deals with all…

And even if you “dislike” PSA very much for whatever reason, you can’t deny final sale values…

SGC experts should become the 19th century branch of psa…that’s it

Scott

You DO realize that if PSA is left without a viable competitor, they will have absolutely no incentive to perform. Their wait times will get even longer, their prices will escalate even higher, their inconsistency will get even worse, and their dreadful customer service will become non-existent. I'd also bet that we'll see even more crumpled baggies instead of slabs that actually fit the card.

If a monopolistic company has no viable competition, there are no checks and balances to keep them honest. Not good for the hobby (errrr, business), and while it may be good for Collectors (the company), it would be a disaster for collectors of the human variety.

So this is not something that even the most diehard PSA Apologist should celebrate. Things would be worse for everyone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who is their competition now?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is their competition now?

Beckett!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

beckett!!!

lol.

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is their competition now?

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

Yep, and closing a successful business would not be a good idea for the shareholders.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Yep, and closing a successful business would not be a good idea for the shareholders.

CLCT is no longer trading. Collectors is privately owned, for now, so no shareholders.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What? Nat Turner took CLCT private in 2021. Ah, Chase just said that right before me.

[CaramelMan]

Off Nasdaq listing does not mean there are no shareholders…

Being on NASDAQ is difficult and expensive…

Does it trade on pink sheets now?

Totally private i find it hard to believe… All the CLCT share holders still hold the stock on pink sheets most likely…meaning they still trade and need to have good business practices/model..

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by perezfan

You DO realize that if PSA is left without a viable competitor, they will have absolutely no incentive to perform. Their wait times will get even longer, their prices will escalate even higher, their inconsistency will get even worse, and their dreadful customer service will become non-existent. I'd also bet that we'll see even more crumpled baggies instead of slabs that actually fit the card.

If a monopolistic company has no viable competition, there are no checks and balances to keep them honest. Not good for the hobby (errrr, business), and while it may be good for Collectors (the company), it would be a disaster for collectors of the human variety.

So this is not something that even the most diehard PSA Apologist should celebrate. Things would be worse for everyone.

We're already past that point though. The reason SGC, CGC, and now MBA are all growing quickly is precisely because of how incompetent PSA has become.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Snowman

We're already past that point though. The reason SGC, CGC, and now MBA are all growing quickly is precisely because of how incompetent PSA has become.

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

What will being long for CGC get you? The answer imho is the same as where
we are right now with SGC. They have been around for 20-25 years and we
are at a point where their future is being questioned and may be in doubt in
their current form. Because of this, the long term concern of value for the cards left in the SGC holder has the potential to slide.

CGC has been around a short time grading cards and don't have a
strong brand following for their graded cards. Their a long way from being
considered an industry option.

It's all a joke. Just buy the card and forget the rest.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

i agree!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

Was this CGC mystery ever solved?

[Johnny630]

How many key vintage cards that look great for their conditions do we see graded in CSG Holders in the big guys Auctions? Like REA, Heritage, And Memory Lane…I can’t think of many. Once that starts happening I may take them seriously as being a viable option.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How many key vintage cards that look great for their conditions do we see graded in CSG Holders in the big guys Auctions? Like REA, Heritage, And Memory Lane…I can’t think of many. Once that starts happening I may take them seriously as being a viable option.

Agree. Outside of maybe one auction house, I haven't seen CSG cards in any of the major auctions.

I do see them at shows, but mainly on Pokemon and other TPG. A few vintage, but very rare.