Wentz, Nash and Bill Mastro

[mok]

I have never posted on this site before because I like to let my stories speak for themselves. I most likely never will post here again for that reason. But I feel like I need to respond to some recent posts because they are so dishonest.

It amazes me how a post about a judge rejecting Bill Mastro's plea deal has turned into another round of bashing me. Michael Wentz began this attack by citing Hauls of Shame, a website run by one Peter Nash. Wentz, are you working in cahoots with Nash? Will you explain your relationship with him? Are you unaware of his numerous legal and financial problems?

One of the things people should know about this case is that the indictment handed down that charged Mastro with a count of fraud says Mastro Auctions sold an 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings Trophy Ball that had questionable authenticity. The 1869 trophy ball named in the indictment was consigned to Mastro Auctions by Nash, according to a lawsuit filed in 2011 in New Jersey federal court by collector Corey Shanus against Rob Lifson and Robert Edward Auctions.

Does that give Nash a reason to try to change the subject when Bill Mastro's plea deal comes up? Why would Wentz cite a post from a guy who is linked to what the government describes as a very sophisticated scheme to defraud collectors?

Both of these legal documents are available on the Internet. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up yourselves.

Nash, as I've said in numerous stories and blog posts in the past, has been involved in a series of lawsuits and financial battles in recent years that should raise questions abut the credibility of any allegation he makes. In recent years, it appears he's gone on a crusade to destroy Barry Halper's reputation. It is certainly true that Barry Halper bought and sold items of questionable provenance. In fact, I have reported on some of those deals, which means Wentz doesn’t know what he’s talking about when, citing Nash, he claims we have not reported on some of the controversy regarding Barry’s collection.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...



http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.514248

Why has Nash made such an effort to attack Halper? Why portray the guy as the Madoff of memorabilia? I've tackled the issue in some of my stories and blog posts. You can look them up if you like via Google.

But don't take my word for it. Here's what Murray Chass, longtime baseball writer for The New York Times and one of the best baseball writers in the country, had to say about the topic:

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3644

The Nash-penned story Murray refers to in his column, by the way, is no longer available online. Did the Post kill it it because its editors were afraid of litigation?

Here’s what Sports Illustrated had to say about Nash:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Now, Wentz, again citing Nash’s website, says I am involved in some sort of mysterious coverup. But it seems to me like Wentz was involved in covering up the true story behind the Gretzky T206 Wagner card for a long time.

When I was doing research for my book The Card, I heard from numerous sources that Wentz and his brother had pictures that showed the Gretzky T206 Wagner before it was trimmed by Mastro.

As we reported in the book, the Wentz boys had told our sources that they had had a falling out with Mastro and that they would use the photos as the centerpiece of a book, film or lawsuit to discredit Bill. I asked them about the photos numerous times. They always acknowledged they had them but refused to give them to me. Instead, they said they wanted to discuss it amongst themselves and told me to call back in a week or so. After a while, I stopped calling. They seemed more interested in playing games and acting like they were very important power brokers than having an honest conversation.

If Wentz had these photos seven years ago (or longer), why didn't he and his brother go public with them? Why not address the controversy then?

I spoke at one of Leon’s gatherings at the National a few years ago and one of those Wentz blowhards said my reporting in the book regarding those pictures was false. Someone got up and said, that's bull, that the Wentz boys told him they were going to use those photos to screw Mastro years ago. There were dozens of people in the room at the time.

As far as Ray Edwards and John Cobb are concerned, I’ve never said their card is authentic. I’ve never said it is inauthentic. It is not my place to determine that. I thought it was interesting that these two men have spent so much time and effort trying to prove their card is real. So have plenty of other media outlets.

Bill Mastro spent Tuesday afternoon in a federal court, looking at 30 months in prison for defrauding collectors. But Wentz and others would rather talk about Ray and John? Some of you guys call them scammers, con men and fraudsters. You are accusing them of being criminals. Who have they ripped off? What crime did they commit? It seems to me the only people they have hurt are themselves for wasting so much time trying to prove the authenticity of this card. Mastro, meanwhile, looks like he is going to prison for defrauding collectors! He was investigated for years by the FBI and prosecuted by the Justice Department? Why did Wentz hijack that thread and change the subject?

Wentz claims he knows Ray and John know their card is a fake. He says he had some kind of confrontation with them at a show in the past. I asked Ray about this a while ago. Ray said it is complete bullshit. Wentz, can you prove your allegation? Was there another witness besides you and your brother? You are accusing them of a fraud, which is a crime. Prove it or shut up.

Race is always a tricky subject in America. The fact that these gentlemen are black and virtually everybody I’ve met in your hobby is white is a fact of life, one bound to have ramifications whether you like it or not. Some people on this board, as we reported in The Card, have posted some ugly things about these guys based on race. They may not have intended them to be ugly, but they sounded ugly to me.

Just recently, Leon said he believes these guys think “whitey” is out to get them. I’ve never heard either of these men use such a racially charged word or any other ethnic slur. Unlike the vast majority of the people on this board, I’ve spoken to Ray on numerous occasions, and I have never heard him use "whitey" or any other racial slur. So why escalate things by using words they have never used?

I left Leon a message that questioned that choice of words. In my mind, it would be like Ray or John accusing a Net 54 member of using the N-word when it was not true. Leon got confused and claimed in a post that I called him a racist. That was not the case; we spoke about it today and he apologized for that post. I have accepted his apology.

I understand some – many – of you don’t like Ray and John. That’s your business. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. But again: Why do some of you guys get so worked up about Ray and John while snoozing past the fact Bill Mastro is apparently going to prison for defrauding collectors?

Finally, a note to Steve F, also known as Ladder 7. It’s D-O-U-C-H-E, not D-O-O-S-H. Learn to spell before you start calling people names.

Michael O’Keeffe
mokeeffe@nydailynews.com

[travrosty]

The ruth signature on the 500 homerun sheet looks exactly from the same hand as the ruth signatures that accompany the babe ruth hair. all fake, and all from the same hand, but from difference sources according to halper?

halper says he got the ruth signature on the 500 homerun sheet from ruth himself at babe ruth day at the stadium, then he says he got the sheet from his father and it had babe ruth's signature already on it.

then he says he traded some custer hair for the babe ruth hair from a collector in iowa, but all the signatures look the same, from the same hand, and a fourth signature from that same hand, which is not ruth's by the way, shows up on the cover of herman darvicks autograph book. The only four signatures of ruth that look crazy like that, and jsa calls the ruth hair signatures "non malicious secretarials, when no others from that secretary can be found other than these? The shortest tenured secretary in the history of baseball i suppose.

halper says he got the jimmie foxx and mel ott signature in foxx's office, and then he says he got them on the ball field instead. he has an alternate story for everything. halper was not an innocent dupe. and then it was found out that when he attended Miami, foxx wasn't even there as coach, having left the season before, and not only has no evidence been unearthed that halper ever played on the miami ball club, but the captain of the club says no one named halper played when he played for foxx, but halper was duped? c'mon. Wake up and smell the pine tar! I think Madoff of Memorabilia is quite appropriate for halper.

[HRBAKER]

I love this hobby!

[murcerfan]

.....popcorn ready, feet up.

[JasonD08]

Mr. O'Keefe

My guess is that you are a liberal Obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

On a serious note.....I personally know the Wentzs' and have dealt numerous times with Bill Mastro. I talk with one of the brothers atleast twice per week. We have talked extensively about many things in the hobby including the Wagner. I have NEVER had any conversation about Sanford & Sons' Wagner (can't remember their names) come up. However, we have had conversations about the Wagner 8. Nothing much that is not already known. I really think you could be far off in your assumptions on these guys. I have actively been doing business with them (no bias by the way) for 15+ years with NEVER a problem. They are 100% professional and helpful in every way. They have never said an unkind word about anyone in the hobby including Bill Mastro to me. I have also done several transactions privately with Bill and he has been a class act and always went above and beyond. Are we stirring something up for another book? Just curious.....

Jason

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JasonD08

Mr. O'Keefe

My guess is that you are a liberal Obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

Why ask that question? What does that have to do with the topic that is being discussed?
That post sounds like it comes from someone who voted for a loser in the 2012 Presidential election, and is full of sour grapes.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jasond08

mr. O'keefe

my guess is that you are a liberal obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

wtf?

Originally Posted by jasond08

I have never had any conversation about sanford & sons' wagner (can't remember their names) come up.

Jason

wtf?

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

wtf?



wtf?

My thoughts exactly.

[ullmandds]

personally...i'd rather discuss the scumbag activites of bill mastro and friends over the years?!

i don't understand why the F anyone is still talking about Ray and John's fake wagner?! We all know it's a terrible fake front mated to a real back...it's been proven by ct scan...it's obvious to anyone with any t206/vintage card knowledge it's a terrible fake. Everyone loves to watch a train wreck...nothing to see here!

Whether I agree with O'keefe or not...I enjoyed reading "the card" and my sister works at the ny daily news...and I like the unique attention the vintage card world gets from tdn!

And as far as Halper goes...another fallen "hero" to add to the list!

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by JasonD08

I have NEVER had any conversation about Sanford & Sons' Wagner (can't remember their names) come up.

Those are exactly the type of racial comments Mr. O'Keeffe was referencing.

[bobbyw8469]

How about the reference Tweedledee and Tweedledum then?? They know their card is a fake. If it looks like a duck....then by god, it's a duck!

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Those are exactly the type of racial comments Mr. O'Keeffe was referencing.

I agree... Southern hospitality?

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by JasonD08

I have NEVER had any conversation about Sanford & Sons' Wagner (can't remember their names) come up.

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Those are exactly the type of racial comments Mr. O'Keeffe was referencing.

The original post had their name:

As far as Ray Edwards and John Cobb are concerned, I’ve never said their card is authentic

I agree with Bugsy. I feel this one statement will negate all the other comments and once again be used as ammo that this entire board is racist because of Jason.

[sbfinley]

Mr. O'Keefe

I don't always agree with your opinions, but I could accept your statement at face value until you reached the subject of Cobb and Edwards. I have no room for people who substitute disillusion in place of reason. The card is not real. Anyone who has a minimal knowledge of the set can tell as much from just a scan. My wife could look at it and point out a half a dozen issues with it within 30 seconds.

The only reason the topic of this card continues, sadly, is because of the race of the owners. This issue is not only the product of the rhetoric some less than poetic voices on a internet message board used, but also because it has become the irrational propaganda the two use to further their imaginary cause. Forget race, that is illegitimate to the issue at hand, the card is not real.

Frankly as an educated member of the hobby, your statement "I’ve never said their card is authentic. I’ve never said it is inauthentic. It is not my place to determine that" is a weak statement to cement a position of neutrality. You might not be a paid consultant or grader for a TPG company, but you have a concise enough knowledge of the hobby to know without uncertainty that a.) The card is fake and b.) there is absolutely no tangible evidence to back up the claim that the card is a "pre-set test proof" or whatever they claim to call it.

This issue will continue until Cobb and Edwards do the only logical thing, which is to have the card examined by one of the renowned and respected TPG companies. Because until that moment arrives they will continue their waltz in public and key members of the hobby, including many on this board, will have to continue to defend their obviously deserved opinion regarding the card. Thus the cycle with continue ad nausea.

Steven Finley

Originally Posted by JasonD08

Mr. O'Keefe

My guess is that you are a liberal Obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

Unless this is an inside joke between you and the OP, statements such as this that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter at hand are partially to blame for the undeserved exposure that Cobb and Edwards have received. It is ignorant to discuss matters of race, political affiliation, or religious preference in the context of a hobby such baseball cards. We all come from different backgrounds, but are brought together because we intrinsically value pictures of long dead sporting men. No more. No less.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

brought together because we intrinsically value pictures of long dead sporting men.

This should be on back of the Net54 t-shirt

[Exhibitman]

...

[Exhibitman]

What happened to the illiterate, feces-flinging monkey part? That was classic N54 smack; even my wife and daughter, who have zero interest in cards, got a huge laugh over it. I think we have a new board motto!

"Finally, a note to Steve F, also known as Ladder 7. It’s D-O-U-C-H-E, you feces-flinging illiterate chimp, not D-O-O-S-H. Learn to spell before you start calling people names."

[atx840]

Originally Posted by mok

Finally, a note to Steve F, also known as Ladder 7. It’s D-O-U-C-H-E, you feces-flinging illiterate chimp, not D-O-O-S-H. Learn to spell before you start calling people names.

Stay classy there sir.

[murcerfan]

At least he continues to play the race card again, and again, and again.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I cannot imagine why MIke W would be less than honest about his encounter with Cobb and Edwards? I recall he told the same story some time ago. In a he said she said, on these facts, i would believe Mike over the denial of a guy trying to pass off as real a card numerous respected souces have said is fake.

[Runscott]

Mr. O'Keefe is a professional reporter. As such, it's not surprising that he's very good at deflecting. His logic seems to be that we aren't allowed to talk about the two fraudsters unless we give equal time to the Mastro situation No, Mr. O'Keefe - we are not ignoring Mastro. We've talked plenty about him, and very little of it has been pleasant. But we have often managed to actually hold two conversations concurrently - if you check, you'll see many threads going at the same time, on many different topics. Amazing, isn't it?

These two scammers heard about the value of the T206 Wagner, and like many others who know practically nothing about vintage baseball cards, figured that if they could rough up a reprint well enough to fool each other, then certainly they could do the same to someone with some big bucks. So they decided to make a run at a big paycheck, using an obvious reprint. That, Mr. O'Keefe is why we don't like these two guys. Whether or not they actually went to Michael with the card is almost irrelevant, but I do believe it - why would I believe two liars over Michael? The fact that others who know even less about vintage baseball cards (e.g-yourself) are supporting their efforts is also not such a great thing.

Many of us have mentioned this before: in our hobby, when you have a questionable item of this supposed value, you take it to either SGC or PSA. The excuses that the two fraudsters used for not doing so were pathetic. Your backing them up was just as bad. But I realize - you were trying to sell a book. Congratulations - you sold a book.

[drc]

My only note on this topic is that, if not recently, Mastro and his former auction house have been discussed and debated many times on this site over the years.

[Brian Van Horn]

Michael,

I have no problem with your investigation. In fact, I applaud it. The reason most of my collection has amounted from single transactions is that I did not altogether trust the auction process. It's based on emotion and impulse. Add in a phantom bidder and the profits soar.

[Matthew H]

I messaged Cobb last year to let him know that better looking Wagner reprints exist now so they might need an upgrade.

Seriously though, their card is a joke and I'm surprised people are still angry about what they're doing. You can get a better looking homemade fake on eBay for around $25.

[OTWCards]

So, if I say that Cobb and Edwards are manipulative a$$holes with nary a clue about their attempts at deceiving the public about how they are being treated, does that make me a racist?

I certainly hope not because I've never assigned any criteria to being an a$$hole other than being an a$$hole. I should know . . . I'm pretty good at being an a$$hole when necessary.

[teetwoohsix]

The fake Wagner card is still fake regardless of who has it in their possession.

I re-read the pages in "The Card" regarding this fake. Even the story about it sounds bogus, paying $1,800.00 for a card you know nothing about-just to tuck it away and forget about it? Come on man. Pages 154-155.

Sincerely, Clayton

[T206DK]

[

I understand some – many – of you don’t like Ray and John. That’s your business. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. But again: Why do some of you guys get so worked up about Ray and John while snoozing past the fact Bill Mastro is apparently going to prison for defrauding collectors?


uhhh....perhaps people don't "like" the fact they are trying to sell a fake card. As for Mastro.....I remember when he was getting shellacked on this forum....or maybe I was snoozing and having a dream

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by T206DK

[

I understand some – many – of you don’t like Ray and John. That’s your business. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. But again: Why do some of you guys get so worked up about Ray and John while snoozing past the fact Bill Mastro is apparently going to prison for defrauding collectors?


uhhh....perhaps people don't "like" the fact they are trying to sell a fake card. As for Mastro.....I remember when he was getting shellacked on this forum....or maybe I was snoozing and having a dream

Maybe the reason no one is getting worked up over Mastro at this point is A. it is old news and has been discussed repeatedly on this board and, B. he is about to pay for his crime. What is the point of beating this dead horse now?

[botn]

Originally Posted by mok

I have never posted on this site before because I like to let my stories speak for themselves.

Oh yes your STORIES most certainly speak for themselves.

I most likely never will post here again for that reason.

Don't care what the reason is, just hope we can hold you to it.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

Originally Posted by jasond08
mr. O'keefe

my guess is that you are a liberal obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

JASON

I AM A PROUD OBAMA SUPPORTER, AND DAMN PROUD TO BE A LIBERAL !!

KEEP YOUR TEABAG RIGHT WING POLITICS OUT OF BASEBALL POSTS

LIBERAL BILL LATZKO TIL THE DAY I DIE!!
VIVA CHE GUEVARA!!

I'm a conservative Baptist minister. I'm also a collector of vintage baseball cards. I don't think I've ever had the urge to scream THE COBB BACK IS NOT A T206!!! during a church service or political discussion.