Wentz, Nash and Bill Mastro
 

I have never posted on this site before because I like to let my stories speak for themselves. I most likely never will post here again for that reason. But I feel like I need to respond to some recent posts because they are so dishonest.

It amazes me how a post about a judge rejecting Bill Mastro's plea deal has turned into another round of bashing me. Michael Wentz began this attack by citing Hauls of Shame, a website run by one Peter Nash. Wentz, are you working in cahoots with Nash? Will you explain your relationship with him? Are you unaware of his numerous legal and financial problems?

One of the things people should know about this case is that the indictment handed down that charged Mastro with a count of fraud says Mastro Auctions sold an 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings Trophy Ball that had questionable authenticity. The 1869 trophy ball named in the indictment was consigned to Mastro Auctions by Nash, according to a lawsuit filed in 2011 in New Jersey federal court by collector Corey Shanus against Rob Lifson and Robert Edward Auctions.

Does that give Nash a reason to try to change the subject when Bill Mastro's plea deal comes up? Why would Wentz cite a post from a guy who is linked to what the government describes as a very sophisticated scheme to defraud collectors?

Both of these legal documents are available on the Internet. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up yourselves.

Nash, as I've said in numerous stories and blog posts in the past, has been involved in a series of lawsuits and financial battles in recent years that should raise questions abut the credibility of any allegation he makes. In recent years, it appears he's gone on a crusade to destroy Barry Halper's reputation. It is certainly true that Barry Halper bought and sold items of questionable provenance. In fact, I have reported on some of those deals, which means Wentz doesn’t know what he’s talking about when, citing Nash, he claims we have not reported on some of the controversy regarding Barry’s collection.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...



http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.514248

Why has Nash made such an effort to attack Halper? Why portray the guy as the Madoff of memorabilia? I've tackled the issue in some of my stories and blog posts. You can look them up if you like via Google.

But don't take my word for it. Here's what Murray Chass, longtime baseball writer for The New York Times and one of the best baseball writers in the country, had to say about the topic:

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3644

The Nash-penned story Murray refers to in his column, by the way, is no longer available online. Did the Post kill it it because its editors were afraid of litigation?

Here’s what Sports Illustrated had to say about Nash:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Now, Wentz, again citing Nash’s website, says I am involved in some sort of mysterious coverup. But it seems to me like Wentz was involved in covering up the true story behind the Gretzky T206 Wagner card for a long time.

When I was doing research for my book The Card, I heard from numerous sources that Wentz and his brother had pictures that showed the Gretzky T206 Wagner before it was trimmed by Mastro.

As we reported in the book, the Wentz boys had told our sources that they had had a falling out with Mastro and that they would use the photos as the centerpiece of a book, film or lawsuit to discredit Bill. I asked them about the photos numerous times. They always acknowledged they had them but refused to give them to me. Instead, they said they wanted to discuss it amongst themselves and told me to call back in a week or so. After a while, I stopped calling. They seemed more interested in playing games and acting like they were very important power brokers than having an honest conversation.

If Wentz had these photos seven years ago (or longer), why didn't he and his brother go public with them? Why not address the controversy then?

I spoke at one of Leon’s gatherings at the National a few years ago and one of those Wentz blowhards said my reporting in the book regarding those pictures was false. Someone got up and said, that's bull, that the Wentz boys told him they were going to use those photos to screw Mastro years ago. There were dozens of people in the room at the time.

As far as Ray Edwards and John Cobb are concerned, I’ve never said their card is authentic. I’ve never said it is inauthentic. It is not my place to determine that. I thought it was interesting that these two men have spent so much time and effort trying to prove their card is real. So have plenty of other media outlets.

Bill Mastro spent Tuesday afternoon in a federal court, looking at 30 months in prison for defrauding collectors. But Wentz and others would rather talk about Ray and John? Some of you guys call them scammers, con men and fraudsters. You are accusing them of being criminals. Who have they ripped off? What crime did they commit? It seems to me the only people they have hurt are themselves for wasting so much time trying to prove the authenticity of this card. Mastro, meanwhile, looks like he is going to prison for defrauding collectors! He was investigated for years by the FBI and prosecuted by the Justice Department? Why did Wentz hijack that thread and change the subject?

Wentz claims he knows Ray and John know their card is a fake. He says he had some kind of confrontation with them at a show in the past. I asked Ray about this a while ago. Ray said it is complete bullshit. Wentz, can you prove your allegation? Was there another witness besides you and your brother? You are accusing them of a fraud, which is a crime. Prove it or shut up.

Race is always a tricky subject in America. The fact that these gentlemen are black and virtually everybody I’ve met in your hobby is white is a fact of life, one bound to have ramifications whether you like it or not. Some people on this board, as we reported in The Card, have posted some ugly things about these guys based on race. They may not have intended them to be ugly, but they sounded ugly to me.

Just recently, Leon said he believes these guys think “whitey” is out to get them. I’ve never heard either of these men use such a racially charged word or any other ethnic slur. Unlike the vast majority of the people on this board, I’ve spoken to Ray on numerous occasions, and I have never heard him use "whitey" or any other racial slur. So why escalate things by using words they have never used?

I left Leon a message that questioned that choice of words. In my mind, it would be like Ray or John accusing a Net 54 member of using the N-word when it was not true. Leon got confused and claimed in a post that I called him a racist. That was not the case; we spoke about it today and he apologized for that post. I have accepted his apology.

I understand some – many – of you don’t like Ray and John. That’s your business. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. But again: Why do some of you guys get so worked up about Ray and John while snoozing past the fact Bill Mastro is apparently going to prison for defrauding collectors?

Finally, a note to Steve F, also known as Ladder 7. It’s D-O-U-C-H-E, not D-O-O-S-H. Learn to spell before you start calling people names.

Michael O’Keeffe
mokeeffe@nydailynews.com

The ruth signature on the 500 homerun sheet looks exactly from the same hand as the ruth signatures that accompany the babe ruth hair. all fake, and all from the same hand, but from difference sources according to halper?

halper says he got the ruth signature on the 500 homerun sheet from ruth himself at babe ruth day at the stadium, then he says he got the sheet from his father and it had babe ruth's signature already on it.

then he says he traded some custer hair for the babe ruth hair from a collector in iowa, but all the signatures look the same, from the same hand, and a fourth signature from that same hand, which is not ruth's by the way, shows up on the cover of herman darvicks autograph book. The only four signatures of ruth that look crazy like that, and jsa calls the ruth hair signatures "non malicious secretarials, when no others from that secretary can be found other than these? The shortest tenured secretary in the history of baseball i suppose.

halper says he got the jimmie foxx and mel ott signature in foxx's office, and then he says he got them on the ball field instead. he has an alternate story for everything. halper was not an innocent dupe. and then it was found out that when he attended Miami, foxx wasn't even there as coach, having left the season before, and not only has no evidence been unearthed that halper ever played on the miami ball club, but the captain of the club says no one named halper played when he played for foxx, but halper was duped? c'mon. Wake up and smell the pine tar! I think Madoff of Memorabilia is quite appropriate for halper.

I love this hobby!

.....popcorn ready, feet up.

...

What happened to the illiterate, feces-flinging monkey part? That was classic N54 smack; even my wife and daughter, who have zero interest in cards, got a huge laugh over it. I think we have a new board motto!

"Finally, a note to Steve F, also known as Ladder 7. It’s D-O-U-C-H-E, you feces-flinging illiterate chimp, not D-O-O-S-H. Learn to spell before you start calling people names."

Mr. O'Keefe

My guess is that you are a liberal Obama supporter. Just curious.....where do you stand on gun control and minimum wage??

On a serious note.....I personally know the Wentzs' and have dealt numerous times with Bill Mastro. I talk with one of the brothers atleast twice per week. We have talked extensively about many things in the hobby including the Wagner. I have NEVER had any conversation about Sanford & Sons' Wagner (can't remember their names) come up. However, we have had conversations about the Wagner 8. Nothing much that is not already known. I really think you could be far off in your assumptions on these guys. I have actively been doing business with them (no bias by the way) for 15+ years with NEVER a problem. They are 100% professional and helpful in every way. They have never said an unkind word about anyone in the hobby including Bill Mastro to me. I have also done several transactions privately with Bill and he has been a class act and always went above and beyond. Are we stirring something up for another book? Just curious.....

Jason

Stay classy there sir.

At least he continues to play the race card again, and again, and again.

I cannot imagine why MIke W would be less than honest about his encounter with Cobb and Edwards? I recall he told the same story some time ago. In a he said she said, on these facts, i would believe Mike over the denial of a guy trying to pass off as real a card numerous respected souces have said is fake.

[

I understand some – many – of you don’t like Ray and John. That’s your business. I'm not going to try to change your opinion. But again: Why do some of you guys get so worked up about Ray and John while snoozing past the fact Bill Mastro is apparently going to prison for defrauding collectors?


uhhh....perhaps people don't "like" the fact they are trying to sell a fake card. As for Mastro.....I remember when he was getting shellacked on this forum....or maybe I was snoozing and having a dream :cool:

Mastro
 

Maybe the reason no one is getting worked up over Mastro at this point is A. it is old news and has been discussed repeatedly on this board and, B. he is about to pay for his crime. What is the point of beating this dead horse now?

Oh yes your STORIES most certainly speak for themselves.

Don't care what the reason is, just hope we can hold you to it.

Mr. O'Keefe is a professional reporter. As such, it's not surprising that he's very good at deflecting. His logic seems to be that we aren't allowed to talk about the two fraudsters unless we give equal time to the Mastro situation :confused: No, Mr. O'Keefe - we are not ignoring Mastro. We've talked plenty about him, and very little of it has been pleasant. But we have often managed to actually hold two conversations concurrently - if you check, you'll see many threads going at the same time, on many different topics. Amazing, isn't it?

These two scammers heard about the value of the T206 Wagner, and like many others who know practically nothing about vintage baseball cards, figured that if they could rough up a reprint well enough to fool each other, then certainly they could do the same to someone with some big bucks. So they decided to make a run at a big paycheck, using an obvious reprint. That, Mr. O'Keefe is why we don't like these two guys. Whether or not they actually went to Michael with the card is almost irrelevant, but I do believe it - why would I believe two liars over Michael? The fact that others who know even less about vintage baseball cards (e.g-yourself) are supporting their efforts is also not such a great thing.

Many of us have mentioned this before: in our hobby, when you have a questionable item of this supposed value, you take it to either SGC or PSA. The excuses that the two fraudsters used for not doing so were pathetic. Your backing them up was just as bad. But I realize - you were trying to sell a book. Congratulations - you sold a book.

My only note on this topic is that, if not recently, Mastro and his former auction house have been discussed and debated many times on this site over the years.

Was part of the indictment that Mastro shilled the auction as well?

Michael,

I have no problem with your investigation. In fact, I applaud it. The reason most of my collection has amounted from single transactions is that I did not altogether trust the auction process. It's based on emotion and impulse. Add in a phantom bidder and the profits soar.

I messaged Cobb last year to let him know that better looking Wagner reprints exist now so they might need an upgrade. :D

Seriously though, their card is a joke and I'm surprised people are still angry about what they're doing. You can get a better looking homemade fake on eBay for around $25.

Michael o'keefe
 

Edited because it's not really worth my time since he claims he won't post again.

Hey ass clown, I'll have you now, I came in second in a fifth grade spelling bee. But, don't ask me, check with Ms Roper.

PS; I checked again and you are wrong, again. Apology accepted.

http://doosh.com/doosh/doosh/HOME.html

Don't think so....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doosh

Scott what were their excuses for not taking the card to psa or sgc if i knew i have forgotten?

I think these guy want to be present during the grading of her Wagner.

I get tired of people saying which red flags to look at. I am able to see them all, thank you very much.

Neither company would let them go behind the scenes to see it being graded, is what I believe their issue was. That is what Joe Orlando said in the video. I am guessing it's the same thing with SGC. The owners said it might get scratched or something.

And thanks to Mike O for coming on and giving his thoughts. I am not sure I agree 100% but I agree with almost all of it. I still think those guys play the pity race card but we can agree to disagree on that. I don't think they are scammers. They are delusional though, imo.

Why ask that question? What does that have to do with the topic that is being discussed?
That post sounds like it comes from someone who voted for a loser in the 2012 Presidential election, and is full of sour grapes.

Funniest typo of the year.

Steve B

Wentz, Nash and Bill Mastro
 

When I saw thread this I was hoping that Graham Nash finally found replacements for David Crosby and Steve Stills. Bummer.

wtf?

wtf?

My thoughts exactly.

personally...i'd rather discuss the scumbag activites of bill mastro and friends over the years?!

i don't understand why the F anyone is still talking about Ray and John's fake wagner?! We all know it's a terrible fake front mated to a real back...it's been proven by ct scan...it's obvious to anyone with any t206/vintage card knowledge it's a terrible fake. Everyone loves to watch a train wreck...nothing to see here!

Whether I agree with O'keefe or not...I enjoyed reading "the card" and my sister works at the ny daily news...and I like the unique attention the vintage card world gets from tdn!

And as far as Halper goes...another fallen "hero" to add to the list!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gP0r0JvgvHU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

People will still discuss their card as long as the mainstream media continues to portray the story as if the card has a chance at being real. Of course we know it's a fake, but does your mom?

I am astounded at how much press baseball cards and memorabilia get in general...the E98 find last year got a TON of mainstream press...I heard and read about it everywhere. My local radio station was discussing the Brooklyn Atlantics CDV last week.

Those are exactly the type of racial comments Mr. O'Keeffe was referencing.

How about the reference Tweedledee and Tweedledum then?? They know their card is a fake. If it looks like a duck....then by god, it's a duck!

i believe tweedledee and tweedledum is racially neutral!

I agree... Southern hospitality?

Embellishing Post #20

Just DOOSH it!!!

Leon, do you know?

yes and yes

Here's the FBI Press Release:
CHICAGO—Online and live auctions of sports memorabilia and other collectibles conducted during the 2000s by the former Mastro Auctions, which was based in suburban Chicago, routinely defrauded customers, according to a federal indictment unsealed today. William Mastro, who owned the former business that once billed itself as the “world’s leading sports and Americana auction house,” together with Doug Allen and Mark Theotikos, both former executives of Mastro Auctions, were indicted on fraud charges for allegedly rigging auctions through a series of deceptive practices, including so-called “shill-bidding,” designed to inflate prices paid by bidders and to protect the interests of consignors and sellers at the expense of unwitting bidders.

According to the indictment, in advertising portraying Mastro Auctions as the premier seller of valuable items, including the world’s most expensive baseball trading card, a Honus Wagner T-206 card, Mastro allegedly failed to disclose that he had altered the Wagner T-206 card by cutting the sides in a manner that, if disclosed, would have significantly reduced the value of the card. The charges allege that Mastro and Allen caused the sale of certain items knowing that their authenticity and condition were misrepresented to customers, including purported hair of Elvis Presley and a purported 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings trophy baseball.

“Consumers might be lured to the auction market for sports memorabilia and other collectibles by an emotional attachment to an item or purely as a calculated investment, but, as the allegations in this case demonstrate, bidders must remain mindful of the maxim ‘Buyer Beware,’” said Gary S. Shapiro, Acting United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois. “Consumers have a right to be protected from deceptive and dishonest sales practices, and we will prosecute those who fraudulently rig auctions at the expense of bidders as the indictment alleges in this case.”

Mr. Shapiro announced the charges with Robert D. Grant, Special Agent in Charge of the Chicago Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Thomas P. Brady, Inspector in Charge of the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in Chicago.

Mastro, 59, of Palos Park, who owned Mastro Auctions until 2004 and was its chairman and chief executive officer from 1996 until February 2009, was charged with one count of mail fraud.

Allen, 49, of Crete, who was president and chief operating officer of Mastro Auctions between 2001 and February 2009, was charged with 14 counts of wire and mail fraud. Theotikos, 51, of Addison, who was employed by Mastro Auctions between 1996 and February 2009 as vice president of auction operations and, later, vice president of acquisitions, was charged with six counts of wire and mail fraud. Both Allen and Theotikos are currently executives of Legendary Auctions, based in south suburban Lansing.

Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos will be arraigned on dates to be determined in U.S. District Court in Chicago.

The 16-count indictment, which was returned by a federal grand jury yesterday, was unsealed today following the arrest of a fourth defendant, William Boehm, 63, of Ballwin, Missouri, who was Mastro Auction’s director of information technology. Boehm, who was charged with one count of making false statements to FBI agents investigating Mastro Auction’s practices, had an initial appearance today in Federal Court in St. Louis.

According to the indictment, Mastro Auctions, which also operated under the names Mastro Fine Sports and Mastro Net, specialized in sports memorabilia but also featured such items as coins, art, and Americana collectibles. Most items were consigned to Mastro Auctions for sale by their owners, but Mastro Auctions also sold items that it owned. Between 2001 and 2009, Mastro Auctions’ offices were located at different times in Oak Brook, Willowbrook, and Burr Ridge, Illinois.

In conducting online and live auctions, Mastro Auctions typically charged a “seller’s fee” or a “commission,” usually a percentage of the price that an item sold for on consignment, and required potential bidders to pay a one-time fee of $75 that enabled them to participate in auctions. Successful bidders were assessed a “buyer’s premium,” usually a fee of 15 to 22 percent on top of their winning bid, which was known as the “hammer price.” Bidders could place bids online through Mastro Auctions’ website or by directly communicating with a Mastro Auctions’ employee by telephone or fax machine. Bidders could place either “straight bids” that incrementally increased the value over the last bid or “ceiling bids” that raised bids by established increments until the maximum a bidder was willing to pay was reached.

Between at least 2001 and February 2009, Mastro, Allen, Theotikos, and others allegedly caused and made false representations and omissions in Mastro Auctions’ catalogs, advertising, promotions, and other media and in the bids placed in certain auctions. Those three defendants allegedly intended to deceive bidders into believing that Mastro Auctions conducted auctions according to practices that ensured fair and competitive auctions for all participants. They further intended to deceive participants into believing that greater market demand existed for some items than actually was the case, the charges allege.

As part of the alleged fraud scheme, the indictment charges that Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos made false statements regarding the conduct of Mastro Auctions, including the following:

each Mastro Auctions catalog represented that “items are sold to the highest bidder.” In fact, Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos allegedly knew that certain items were not sold to the highest bidder because they canceled sales and engaged in and facilitated shill-bidding to fraudulently inflate prices to the detriment of bidders;
consignment agreements prohibited consignors or their agents from bidding on an item and, if the consignor violated this provision and had the highest bid on an item or lot, the consignor would be required to pay the commission and buyer’s premium. In fact, the three defendants knew they permitted certain consignors to bid on their own items, and, at times, those consignors did not pay commissions or premiums when they placed the highest bid; and
the three defendants represented at various times that Mastro Auctions did not implement undisclosed “reserves,” meaning prices, not disclosed to bidders, at which Mastro Auctions would not sell an item if the bidding failed to reach the “reserve” price. In fact, in certain auctions, they canceled sales instead of allowing the highest bidder to purchase an item, in order to prevent the sale of the item at a price lower than the consignor desired.

In October 2007, Allen allegedly created a “Code of Conduct” for Mastro Auctions. Despite the code’s assurances to the contrary, Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos knew that Mastro Auctions frequently did not disclose true ownership of items or that several employees with bidding privileges, including Mastro and Allen, had access to information about the ceiling bids, including the bid amounts. Further, contrary to the code’s assurances, employees, including Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos, bid on items consigned by related parties.

Among allegedly fraudulent auction practices, the indictment charges that the three defendants and others placed fictitious shill bids for the sole purpose of artificially inflating the price of items being auctioned. They allegedly placed shill bids at various times using a corporate bidding account, their own personal accounts, and accounts of employees and friends. The defendants then ensured that when a shill bid was the highest bid, the shill bidder would not be required to purchase the item; instead, they canceled the sale and offered the item to the next-highest bidder, the charges allege.

The Code of Conduct also provided certain assurances that Mastro Auctions would disclose information about auction items that were altered or restored. After the code was published, Mastro and Allen allegedly failed to disclose alterations and caused restoration work to be done on baseball trading cards, despite assurances that no such work would be performed.

Mastro and Allen also allegedly knew that they had misrepresented the authenticity of the purported hair of Elvis Presley. In April 2003, Mastro Auctions sold hair purportedly of Presley. The initial purchasers later returned the hair along with the results of DNA testing, which called its authenticity into question. In June 2004, Allen provided a refund to the purchasers. In December 2005, August 2006, April 2007, and August 2008, Allen again sold portions of the purported Presley hair to Mastro Auction bidders. In each instance, he allegedly made false representations in catalogs, such as asserting that the hair was “bona fide” or that it would be sold with “documents attesting to the veracity,” without disclosing the results of the DNA testing.

In August 2002, Mastro Auctions sold to Purchaser A what it claimed was an 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings trophy baseball, which was described as an actual game ball played with by the first professional team, decorated following the game, and presented to the winning team. In October 2006, Purchaser A submitted the ball for laboratory testing, which indicated that the paint on the trophy ball contained a material not used in commercial paint until after World War II, thus clouding the authenticity of the ball. A month later, Allen provided a refund to Purchaser A and the ball was returned to Mastro Auctions, the indictment states. In December 2006, Mastro allegedly contacted Victim A about purchasing the trophy ball and failed to disclose information about the paint test results. On December 27, 2006, Victim A purchased the trophy ball from Mastro Auctions for approximately $62,000, according to the indictment.

The false statements count against Boehm alleges that he lied to FBI agents in July 2007 when he stated that he had disabled the Mastro Auctions bidding account of Individual D because Individual D was having financial difficulties, and he had created a bidding account in the name of “Craig Helling” to catch a Mastro Auctions employee suspected of stealing company information. In fact, Boehm allegedly knew that the accounts in the names of Individual D and Craig Helling were used to place fictitious bids.

Assistant U.S. Attorneys Nancy DePodesta and Steven Grimes represent the government.

Each count of mail and wire fraud against Mastro, Allen, and Theotikos carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine and restitution is mandatory. The court may also impose a fine totaling twice the loss to any victim or twice the gain to the defendant, whichever is greater. The false statements count against Boehm carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. If convicted, the court must impose a reasonable sentence under federal statutes and the advisory United States Sentencing Guidelines.

The public is reminded that an indictment contains only charges and is not evidence of guilt. The defendants are presumed innocent and are entitled to a fair trial at which the government has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.


http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-rel...r-collectibles

this is the original indictment.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/c...pr0725_01a.pdf

anyone know what happened with the lawsuit between Corey Shanus and Rob Lifson and REA?

The original post had their name:
I agree with Bugsy. I feel this one statement will negate all the other comments and once again be used as ammo that this entire board is racist because of Jason.

"Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Scott what were their excuses for not taking the card to psa or sgc if i knew i have forgotten?"

"Neither company would let them go behind the scenes to see it being graded, is what I believe their issue was. That is what Joe Orlando said in the video. I am guessing it's the same thing with SGC. The owners said it might get scratched or something."


Ok this is something Ive been wanting to ask about. Ive heard them use this excuse several times before and I just find it to be an easy excuse. My question is this. They have done an expert paper sample on the card right? How exactly does that work? Dont they have to scrap a paper sample off the card to do so? Or remove a piece of paper from the card? Or scratch some off? How does a paper sample work? Or do they just look through a microscop and say yep its 100 years old.?
Trying to wrap my head around the paper experts process.
Sorry if this is a dumb question.

The mistake is that they weren't worried about the card being scratched. It is that the card may be stolen and swapped for a fake.
... or maybe PSA will still their fake and swap it with an authentic card?:D

What's to keep the auctioneer from running off with it? It was in his possession for a long time. It would be pretty simple to get this card graded at a show without ever leaving the table.

Yeah, but taking it to SGC or PSA would kill the deal.

They are also working on a perpetual motion machine. ....and please don't say it's impossible, unless of course, you are a racist.

PSA..You can wait in the lobby at PSA if you like while its being graded.

Yeah but does PSA have a back door Mr Orlando??

Mr Orlando.. How did you know about our back door!!!

Sorry we cant do business with you PSA!

OK so Mr. Simon are you insinuating that I made a racial slur?? My comment referencing Sanford & Sons was made in comparison to the two guys as JUNK dealers trying to pass of garbage. I should have imagined you left-wingers have been waiting to jump on someone to cry and pull the"race card". Actually, ole Red Fox had more class than these two parasites.

Well-said. And Cobb, Edwards and O'Keefe probably have the same level of expertise when it comes to T206's.