Vintage Cards graded 8/9/10

[Matt]

In your estimation, what percentage of cards that are 50+ years old that reside in TPG slabs graded 8, 9 or 10 have been trimmed?

(yes, the percentage options are not comprehensive)

[Jim VB]

Overall, I think the percentage is pretty small (under 5%.) But the more valuable the card, and the older it is, I think the percentage climbs.

Edited to add: Despite the low %, the vast number of cards could still be huge.


Maybe a poll is needed?

[calvindog]

I don't know the answer to that because it would be mere speculation; what is not speculation, however, is that 100% of the 8s, 9s and 10s in slabs are worth more than the untrimmed 5s, 6s and 7s.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I don't know the answer to that because it would be mere speculation;

Jeff - that's the point - it's a gauge on collector perception, not on the cards themselves.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Matt

Jeff - that's the point - it's a gauge on collector perception, not on the cards themselves.

Matt, I'm not sure that it even gauges collector perception. Inevitably, many of the purported 'have-nots' -- who only buy 3s, 4s, and 5s -- will claim that all the high graded stuff is trimmed, even though they don't think so, so as to smugly rationalize why they don't go for the expensive stuff.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Matt, I'm not sure that it even gauges collector perception. Inevitably, many of the purported 'have-nots' -- who only buy 3s, 4s, and 5s -- will claim that all the high graded stuff is trimmed, even though they don't think so, so as to smugly rationalize why they don't go for the expensive stuff.

I just assume they are balanced out by those who only collect high grade and vote a low percentage to protect their investment.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Matt

I just assume they are balanced out by those who only collect high grade and vote a low percentage to protect their investment.

Hell, it doesn't make a difference if people think the cards in 9 and 10 holders are trimmed -- they sell themselves. I can't say the same for cards in 2-5 holders.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Matt

I just assume they are balanced out by those who only collect high grade and vote a low percentage to protect their investment.

That is known as the "reverse smugly." I have no clue but I would not be surprised at all if it were well in excess of 20%. Remember we are talking about a fairly small sample, 50+ years old and a 8/9/10.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Matt, I'm not sure that it even gauges collector perception. Inevitably, many of the purported 'have-nots' -- who only buy 3s, 4s, and 5s -- will claim that all the high graded stuff is trimmed, even though they don't think so, so as to smugly rationalize why they don't go for the expensive stuff.

I think we need some TPG social promotion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I don't know the answer to that because it would be mere speculation; what is not speculation, however, is that 100% of the 8s, 9s and 10s in slabs are worth more than the untrimmed 5s, 6s and 7s.

Just imagine if you were an alchemist and could turn one into the other.

[barrysloate]

Matt- I think you mean 8/9/10...fix your heading.

Of course this is all speculation. Nobody has seen more than a tiny fraction of all the high grade cards, so any response is very unscientific. I chose under 10% but it wouldn't surprise me if there were more than that.

[Rob D.]

I saw the title of this thread and thought it meant cards graded on Aug. 19 of this year.

[barrysloate]

Exactly what I thought also.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Matt- I think you mean 8/9/10...fix your heading.

Oops - thanks!

[Leon]

I said 10%-20% but think that could be low..

We have collected pre-WW II high grades for more than 30 years. Many of the finer specimens in our collection were acquired long-before the formal grading services were established.

Of the thousands of PSA 8 and PSA 9 cards that we have had, as well a number of PSA 6's and PSA 7's in the much tougher early E card sets, we have found only 12 cards that were trimmed. Oddly five of those cards came from one auction house, in two separate transactions. and three cards were Teletrade acquisitions.

Thanks to assistance of Rob Lifson, we were able to obtain full refunds - either from the dealer or PSA on all but two of the cards.

Accordingly, it is our conclusion that 3% of all early high grade cards might be trimmed or altered...but it should be the buyer's responsibility to review the card carefully. And, of course, consider who is selling you the card.

The cardinal rule of "trust no one" double check everyone makes a great deal of sense when one is spending upwards of four or five figures on a piece of
old cardboard.

Looking forward to many great finds at the NATIONAL.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com