probably of occurance of vintage cards??

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

Hello..

I was wondering if any one has thoughts on the RATE at which these Vintage cards are not being seen any more. Obvioudly, 20-30 years ago it was MUCH easier to find old hard to find cards and as years pass the chance of seeing them is less and less. If you do see the card again it will cost much more down the road!!.

I collect on ebay alot and I have noticed I do not see the regional vintage cards as much as I used to see several years ago. It may now take a year to see a card I passed on.. Where will it be in 5 years from now?? I wonder?? Obviously, It would be nice to track this impossible task but only experience and networking will help determine the chance of seeing a card that one passes on..
I often wonder at some point in the furure these cards just are not going to be around much and if they are the price may be out of sight.. and I think the first signs of this process has started with accepting lesser condition cards... People are accepting lesser condition cards because the better ones are just gone.. I know I have..

your thoughts...

Best
Richard

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

If there was no baseball card collecting hobby, would there be more cards available today, or less? That is, how many would have been lost to attrition over the past fifty years?

But that is neither the case, nor the question. In the absence of data regarding how many cards are being taken off the market for a long term, all we have is opinions.

Here is mine: I think that a great many cards were taken off the market, in bulk, in the 1970s. From the 80s on the base of collectors has continuously expanded. This expansion has resulted in an increase in demand for those remaining cards. Both collectors and investors are likely to keep cards for the long term. So, I agree with your assessment. Each year there are less cards available, and since the higher grade cards are less common, it is most noticable in that group.

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Posted By: Julie

Demand and good times brings cards to the marketplace, and their prices go up. Then the market gets somewhat satiated, and the prices go down. Bad times, vintage cards stay in their collections, because nobody wants to sell for less than he paid. Extraordinary demand (like the present demand for Old Judges) brings them to the marketplave--but the prices stay high! YURG...

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

I've been collecting cards for 30 yrs, and I have never sold pre-war cards. Once I get em I keep em. I've sold the "new" stuff to finance the old stuff. I know of several other serious collectors who have never sold any of their hoards. Certainly, it takes thousands of serious collectors hoarding to dry up a particular market, but that is what I believe is happening.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

"Demand and good times brings cards to the marketplace, and their prices go up. Then the market gets somewhat satiated, and the prices go down. Bad times, vintage cards stay in their collections, because nobody wants to sell for less than he paid. Extraordinary demand (like the present demand for Old Judges) brings them to the marketplave--but the prices stay high! YURG..."


Julie, you're a she and Vivian Barning is a she. Correction - "they paid." Don't take me seriously Julie, I'm just having some fun! You're right about the OJs - tough to find some nice ones priced nicely. I guess any 19th century material is getting to be that way.

I'm still waiting for the bottom to fall out of all of this so that I can start scooping up the OJs, cheap. Ok, I wont hold my breath.

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Posted By: Scott

I had several buyers who bought rare items from me, photographed them, and put them in a vault, never to be removed. One guy was so egotistical that he would get upset if I sold a rare item to another collector - he once said "that card deserves to be in my collection" - even though he would only actually look at it once, to photograph prior to it's trip to the dungeon. He hoarded several rare cards and would pay almost any amount for them.

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Increased prices bring out supply. Cards are not "consumed." They simply await new owners at higher prices. If you start paying up for regional issues then, VOILA, you will see more to buy. Recent demonstrations of this phenomenae currently on display in Old Judges and caramel cards.

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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Hey Scott,

"Gee, it must be rough living the life of the egotistical collector, that you had mentioned. To be able to afford, whatever card(s) you could ever possibly want..... What a terrible life, he must live!"

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: tbob

I don't think I can totally agree with the theory that says that if a particular set starts catching fire, then those cards will start appearing left and right. Look at the E94 through E100 sets. They are red hot right now and yet you can't find many for sale in any condition at any price. I have exhausted my list of all the dealers who sell pre-war caramel cards and also collector friends and now must settle for waiting on a card to hit ebay with the feeding frenzy which always ensues. The E94s are almost non-existent and even the E98s are becoming scarce as hen's teeth. The E99 and E100s have always been tough.
On the other hand, I would agree that soaring prices does affect availability of tobacco cards. T210s have been plentiful lately as the prices on these on ebay has risen way above "book." Maybe collectors are looking for alternatives, having completed T205 and 206 sets, who knows? Two sets which remain real bargains are the M116 Sporting Life set and the T213 Coupon sets. I expect them to take off soon.

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Posted By: Julie

them an off-color joke that I didn't know was off color. I swear to Buddha both the statements are true 1) they haven't spoken and 2) I didn't KNOW it was off color.

Stupid joke ANYWAY...and the dumbest part of it was having Snider say "---belongs in the terlet." when Snider was from California, wherever he played later...you don't pick up a Brooklyn accent just because you play for the team...

But even if I were a normal, intelligent human being who recognizes an off-color joke when they hear one (instead of inventing in my mind the most IMPOSSIBLE scenerio to make it funny for some other reason), and i had STILL told them the (really dumb) joke, I STILL THINK IT'S TACKY TO WITHDRAW YOUR FRIENDSHIP BECAUSE OF ONE LOUSY BAD OFF-COLOR JOKE, and I've never forgiven them!!!!!!! And I never will. (!!)

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

I have to make one more statement and I truly believe that the shortage of vintage cards is partly a fall off of the new baseball card market today. In my mind, the new card companies have come up with MANY gimicks to hold collectors and the major one is MAKING NEW CARDS LOOK OLD!! Well, you only can do that for so long before people start realizing that the MONEY and enjoyment that they real have is for VINTAGE cards.. and this is why I believe that regional cards are getting much tougher to get... There are only so many cards available and MORE collectors are joining the hobby... I feel in several years it will be much harder and cost much more to get the good stuff if it can even be found... I do agree with most commits that supply and demand and good times and bad but in my mind there is going to be a flood of vintage collectors that
wake up and realize that NEW cards will NEVER replace OLD VINTAGE CARDS....

Best
Richard

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Posted By: Scott

or really gave a sh*t that they hadn't spoken to you in 20 years...you wouldn't be telling this story in a public forum.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

And I'd only told the story once before in-- 20 years! WHERE did you get the idea I was sorry for something? I told a joke which make Frank Barning so mad he never spoke to me again. It wasn't racist, sexist, poliitically incorrect, or anything but a bad off-color joke of the type people stop telling in 3rd grade. Since he already knew i wasn't stupid, I should think the telling of one stupid joke could be forgiven. But apparently not.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Julie,dont take this the wrong way but if the joke was stupid then maybe they were just looking for any reason to stop talking to you and used a joke as an excuse.

Ive talked to them thru email a few times and they are great people to deal with


Getting back on subject,if a short supply old set becomes popular then it automatically becomes harder to find,but the same happens if it becomes too popular then people get out of them because the prices are too high.Then no one wants to sell because they paid too much so they have more to lose.A set could be difficult to find for a long period but then become plentiful when people see prices are finally back to normal[or above].Im 4 cards away from encouraging people to collect t206s because once i finish i dont care where the prices go on them,but i know people will appreciate them and the challenge of collecting a whole set

this is my signature

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Frank had already published two poems of mine. John, just because YOU would look for any excuse to stop talking to me doesn't mean anyone wouold. It was the joke, and nothing but the joke. Vivian had offered to help me complete my '53 Bowman set. She withdrew the offer. I never saw a smile fade from someone's face while i was talking to them before. Frank's did. My mother and I were rushed out (I wondered why, if they were so busy, they had asked us to drop- by in the first place!). When the card came saying Vivian didn';t have time to find '53 Bowmans for me--i realied something was wrong.

A week later, walking down the street, the off-color meaning of the joke came to me.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

So youre saying i was right.......can you at least tell us the joke,now everyone wants to know and i dont think we will be offended enough not to talk to you,so spill it Vognar

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Posted By: Julie

(O.K. It's '84. Reese is up for the Hall--for either the first Veteran's time or last Sportswriter's time--he made it too. I don't know who told me the joke. Because of a place i lived once, I pictured "PeeWee (locked in) the toilet" And that's the truth!):

PeeWee and Duke are waiting for a train, and Duke has "PeeWee belongs in the Hall" sticker on his bag. Reese objects; makes him embarassed to be called attention to like that. So Duke says: So would you prefer "PeeWee belongs in the terlet?"

That's the stupid joke. I know only an idiot wouldn't get it, and only an idiot would tell it. But the Barnings knew i wasn't an idiot. And I'd think one example of idiocy could be forgiven. Frank had published "Men Against Red," and a jingle i wrote about "14 Pete Roses in 3 differen t poses/ in one pack of Donruss cards" (which I really got, too!)

Like i said, it was a month later that i figured out why I'd suddenly gotten the cold shoulder.

See, in Hyde Park, in Chicago, "Pee Wee" was never used for pee, either the verb or the noun. I just wasn't used to it! (I assume this is also true where Reese grew up, since he was named after a marble!)

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I think the supply and demand thing applies here. The material will hit the market when the demand drives the realized sale prices to new high levels.

Do you ever wonder why people like Halper, Egan (and the rest) sell their beautiful collections?

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Posted By: Julie

families well-provided for.