This looks interesting indeed

[danmckee]

How could this have happened? A non paying bidder from the catalog auction maybe?? The auction just ended though.

Ok , got my response from my long time friend Bill Huggins

"House of Cards was the winning bidder in the auction. Is this the first item you have seen on ebay under House of Cards that was in one of our auctions? HOC wins stuff in almost every H&S auction. We pay the same buyers premium as everyone else. We do have a slight advantage in shipping charges!!!"



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-B...item4ab40abec4


http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=41648

[Leon]

Hey Dan
Sounds like you have a good question but what is the item?

[frankbmd]

I concur.

[danmckee]

ok I reposted

[Fred]

Readers may not understand the thread unless they know the assocation between H&S and House of Cards.

Edited to add name: Fred C()w1e$

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Fred

Readers may not understand the thread unless they know the assocation between H&S and House of Cards.

Id be one of those readers...

[MikeU]

Originally Posted by danmckee

How could this have happened? A non paying bidder from the catalog auction maybe?? The auction just ended though.

Ok , got my response from my long time friend Bill Huggins

"House of Cards was the winning bidder in the auction. Is this the first item you have seen on ebay under House of Cards that was in one of our auctions? HOC wins stuff in almost every H&S auction. We pay the same buyers premium as everyone else. We do have a slight advantage in shipping charges!!!"



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-B...item4ab40abec4


http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=41648

What auction houses do absolutely none of the following?:

1. Sell their own items.
2. Have hidden reserves.
3. Mechanisms/ways to get to hidden reserve.
4. Bid on items in their own auctions.
5. Let employees bid on items.
6. Let employees sell their own items.
7. Let employees bid on their own or colleagues items.
8. "Prepare" cards for grading.

[Fred]

First off, I'm a bit dumbfounded about this. For obvious reasons common sense dictates that you shouldn't bid on/up items in your own auction. That's not to say I believe the guys at H&S / HOC are dishonest.

Originally Posted by MikeU

What auction houses do absolutely none of the following?:

1. Sell their own items.
2. Have hidden reserves.
3. Mechanisms/ways to get to hidden reserve.
4. Bid on items in their own auctions.
5. Let employees bid on items.
6. Let employees sell their own items.
7. Let employees bid on their own or colleagues items.
8. "Prepare" cards for grading.

Mike,

I don't have an issue with an auction house:

1. Selling their own items
6. Let employees sell their own items
8. Prepare cards for grading (assuming they are not altering them).

I do think its unethical for an auction house to:

3. Mechanisms/ways to get to hidden reserve.
4. Bid on items in their own auctions.
7. Let employees bid on their own items

I think it's poor business practice to:

5. Let employees bid on items.
7. Let employees bid on their colleagues items.


One of the most recent auctions I bid in had a pretty neat item. I bid on it the last day and expected it to get jacked up in price (which I would have been happy to pay). My bid was never increased. I'm comfortable with that auction house because of that.

[glchen]

OK, one other auction house that does something similar is Heritage. The link to the thread where this was discussed is here: Link

According to that thread, Heritage states that what they do is "placing house bids" and that this is distinct from shilling. From that thread, they state:

"1) Placing house bids in one’s own auction. This is what Heritage does. We place bids on material at the price we would be willing to pay if someone came up to our table at a card show wanting to sell. This is done a week before the auction closes, long before the competitive final bidding has even begun. We bid in our competitors’ auctions as well. We win very little because we only bid wholesale prices. "

I do not want to misquote or take Jonathan's (from Heritage) statement out of context, so please see the link about for his complete statement on Heritage's policy. It is Post #9 in that thread and further clarified in Post #44.

I do not know if what Huggins and Scott does is the same or similar. However, I did want to point out that what they do is not unique. There are many other auction houses that also have an online store. I do not know what their policy is on bidding on lots in their auction. I think REA is the only auction house with really impeccable ethical standards, but I'm not an expert in this area. calvindog would know much better than I do here.

[jmk59]

Auctions are unique in that you can be a valuable customer without ever having spent a dime with the AH. This is because as long as you bid, you raise the overall level of prices and interest. Even if you don't win, someone else has to pay more than they would have if you had not bid. Non-winning bidders are as important to final prices as the eventual winners.

So an AH bidding on its own auctions may do more to help the bottom line when it loses an item than when it wins. That's why it's wrong for an AH to bid in their own auctions, even if they have some intent to try to win and the bidding is done through a technically separate business.

Not that I will stop bidding in H/S.

Jo.ann K!ine

[tbob]

I have bid on and won auctions with both Heritage and Huggins and Scott and have never had any problems, but this is troubling news.
I would second that the Burks never cause me any concern with their auctions nor do Lew Lipset, Dave (Bagger) or the often lamented loss of Barry Sloate's auctions.
I bid frequently in Goodwin's auctions and haven't ever had a problem with them, do they keep employees etc. from bidding in their auctions?
Bob M@rquette

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tbob

I have bid on and won auctions with both Heritage and Huggins and Scott and have never had any problems, but this is troubling news.
I would second that the Burks never cause me any concern with their auctions nor do Lew Lipset, Dave (Bagger) or the often lamented loss of Barry Sloate's auctions.
I bid frequently in Goodwin's auctions and haven't ever had a problem with them, do they keep employees etc. from bidding in their auctions?

Barry, Lew, and the Burke's were my favorites. Hunt, Heritage and Legendary have each given me great customer service when I had even small issues.

[atx840]

I think you are missing a key piece to this.

If someone pays me a buyers premium of $20, I'm up $20 for my efforts.

If my daughter wins and doesnt pay me the $20, (highly likely as she is 3 and always broke) I'm out my $20. She saves on the front but together we are even, so now she has to flip them for more then the cost plus the $20 I'm out. Not always easy to do.

So if HOC wins and doesnt pay H&S, H&S are out 20% of the previous bid, as that was a guaranteed BP to be paid before HOC bid up. Now who know if HOC hadnt bid up if someone else would. That's their biggest risk if it's borderline a good price, loose the BP and make it on the flip.

Now if HOC slowly bumps up that BP managing their risk on not winning too many lots then they can create a significant amount of profit for H&S to compensate for the lots they do win and have to flip. Now celing bids, if ones been entered it likely could be accessed but I won't go there.