This looks interesting indeed

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by danmckee

No sarcasam whatsoever, I think that is neat that you worked for them and odd that I never met you since I am there several times a year.

Hey, they wouldn't hire me so you have one up on me.

Dan

They kept me in the basement most of the time. No seriously my desk was in the basement, kinda like Milton. I wrote for the catalog and traveled to shows with Bill.

Its really a matter of trust, so there is no debate. I trust that despite him bidding on items for his store, that no shill bidding takes place as they do not see max bids. Obviously we live in a society where trust comes at a premium especially in this hobby so there is no sense in me trying to convince you as you are not in a position to trust as I am.

[glchen]

I just wanted to say that I don't think Huggins and Scott is alone in doing this. Other auction houses have also been known to do this. I can't remember the thread, but I thought I remember that one of the auction houses gave the excuse that if the lot was going for a really good value, they would also look into purchasing the lot for themselves.

I think the auction house with the best integrity would again fall back to REA. No hidden reserves, no employee bidding, no employee owned lots (unless fully disclosed), etc. I think that they are still the gold standard.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by glchen

I just wanted to say that I don't think Huggins and Scott is alone in doing this. Other auction houses have also been known to do this.

I believe Hunt Auctions bids on items with a house account if they believe the sale price is below market.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Matt

I believe Hunt Auctions bids on items with a house account if they believe the sale price is below market.

Hi Matt, Hunt's always had a bidding house account at their live auctions. They were there live like I was and couldn't see who the phone bidders were. Not that it is any better and not that H&S can see who is bidding or ceilings left, but it does seem a bit strange for the need to do this. Just set higher minimums maybe?

Dan

[honus94566]

So which auction houses don't engage in shill bidding?

REA it seems...?

What about Goodwin, Legendary, Mile High etc?

[dstraate]

If the related businesses wanted to "transfer" items, buy them outright, or trade inventory, that is fine.

In an auction, it is totally unacceptable for all of the reasons that been previously mentioned. It's truely sad that there's so much dishonesty in the business. I'm blessed to be surrounded by children in my line of work, where the dishonesty generally centers around how strong their dad is, or the existence of unicorns.

[Fred]

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with an auction house bidding up items because the auction house doesn't want to sell an item below what they feel is a fair market value. Why don't those stupid SOBs that practice this either get out of the auction business or start the lots off where they feel they don't have to SHILL the frigging price up on the general public.

Also, hidden reserves are BULL $HIT. Why bother with a hidden reserve? Just place a minimum starting bid on the item. If it doesn't sell then the geniuses should figure out that their assessment of fair market value may be a bit off.

Funny story - A while back I saw a card that I've been wanting for a LONG time (on feebay). To me the dealer had a price that was a bit too high so I just kept watching the card. Then I saw the card exchange hands because another dealer had the card and it was at an even higher price than before (on feebay). I continued to watch the card and it didn't sell. Just recently the dealer had an auction and this card was in the auction. There was just one bid on the card. I placed a bid with a much higher ceiling bid, expecting more bidders to jack up the price. To my surprise the card received NO further bids and I picked iup the card for less than half the price that the first dealer was asking for it. I trust that auction house!

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by ksabet

I trust that despite him bidding on items for his store, that no shill bidding takes place as they do not see max bids.

It doesn't matter whether they know the max bids or not, it is still shilling. His participation in the bidding is raising the final prices and therefore increasing Huggins & Scotts' profits on those lots.

Consider this. If I were to bid on my own eBay listings, I don't know what the high bidder has entered, but my participation would still alter the final price.

It is a clear conflict of interest to participate in any bidding when you stand to financially benefit from the outcome of the sale. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by ksabet

They kept me in the basement most of the time. .

This was funny, though I know what you mean as I know the set up there well. But still a funny statement if you don't really know the set up there.