This looks interesting indeed

[slidekellyslide]

At least they don't hide it...not sure what difference it makes when he says they still pay buyer's premium...I'm sure they are separate businesses, but it's still the left hand paying the right.

[FrankWakefield]

It is wrong... the left hand will know whether to bid again or leave something alone. It's wrong for both hands. It should stop. Or folks should stop bidding...

[Jaybird]

It certainly makes me uncomfortable.

How is this not shilling? Bid an item up by HOC and then backoff or end up owning it and put it on ebay. Either the item gets bumped up to a higher price and they win or it gets bid up to a higher price and they win by getting a higher premium from the winner.

Not great...

[honus94566]

WTF? OK I am not going to be bidding at huggins and scott anymore. This really makes me mad. I have bought a few things from them and spent a significant amount of money. I have sent them an email requesting an explanation.

I just don't know about this hobby. As much as I enjoy it I am just getting sick of the dishonesty and fraud.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

At least they don't hide it...not sure what difference it makes when he says they still pay buyer's premium...I'm sure they are separate businesses, but it's still the left hand paying the right.

Looks like a pure shilling account....

Wow and they admit this?

[Griffins]

This is just plain wrong. Not the first time I've heard of something there that has raised an eyebrow, and I'm disappointed.

Anthony Nex

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

Looks like a pure shilling account....

Absolutely... and they have the audacity to claim "We pay the same buyers premium as everyone else"

Except for the general public pays the premium to you, while you are paying it to yourself.

This.is.so.wrong.

I am sure your consignors might not mind, but they might start thinking twice when realizing that H&S will lose BIDDERS over this. Fewer bidders = lower realized prices for the consignors. I for one am not going to do business with H&S and their shilling account anymore.

[Bugsy]

This is incredibly unethical!!! He profits on items where he bids and doesn't win the item. This is the same a shill bidding. I will have to think long and hard about ever doing business with them again.

[danmckee]

I spoke to Bill on the phone tonight, he guaranteed me that they cannot see who is bidding or how much. It is just a misunderstanding.

Like if he or one of his employees bid, they really couldn't see the bid history or the ceilings, they would just be like another bidder.

Dan

[Runscott]

Serious question: Not that this issue shouldn't be discussed, but it's gotten me curious - are there any auction houses that pass the 'integrity' standards of this board? I'd like to see someone's list of 'the good guys', and then see if any of them survive the scrutiny of other board members.

Looking at the list of auction houses that I bid have bid in, the Burkes are the only one I know of that have never been ripped apart on here before.

Edited to add: I've ripped apart several myself, no not trying to be a hypocritical

[danmckee]

The Burks are as honest as can be, there auction just doesn't picture items very well. No backs pictured and minimal descriptions.

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I spoke to Bill on the phone tonight, he guaranteed me that they cannot see who is bidding or how much. It is just a misunderstanding.

Nice try.

No, it's not a misunderstanding at all. We understand exactly what is going on. You can try to spin this, but in the end a pig with lipstick on is still a pig.

Reality: The house account that is "bidding" is driving up prices for the other bidders.

Reality: "they would just be like another bidder" umm.... no. They would NOT be just like another bidder. Because they are not paying the buyer's premium like everyone else (OK, they are, but if they are paying the premium to themselves, they are not really paying it at all. Them claiming they are paying it is pure baloney.) So for a house account bidding, the playing field is not level. The house account is getting essentially a 17.5% discount on all items, since they do not pay the premium. Definitely dishonest and unethical.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Nice try.

No, it's not a misunderstanding at all. We understand exactly what is going on. You can try to spin this, but in the end a pig with lipstick on is still a pig.

Reality: The house account that is "bidding" is driving up prices for the other bidders.

Reality: "they would just be like another bidder" umm.... no. They would NOT be just like another bidder. Because they are not paying the buyer's premium like everyone else (OK, they are, but if they are paying the premium to themselves, they are not really paying it at all. Them claiming they are paying it is pure baloney.) So for a house account bidding, the playing field is not level. The house account is getting essentially a 17.5% discount on all items, since they do not pay the premium. Definitely dishonest and unethical.

Well said! This is my point exactly.

[cobblove]

..

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I spoke to Bill on the phone tonight, he guaranteed me that they cannot see who is bidding or how much. It is just a misunderstanding.

Like if he or one of his employees bid, they really couldn't see the bid history or the ceilings, they would just be like another bidder.

Dan

Misunderstanding? Bullsh*t! It does't matter. The fact the he or any employees are bidding is a complete conflict of interest and incredibly unethical. Let's say I enter a max of $1000 on a item and it is sitting at $400. He could jump in and bump it to $600. He is making a profit on the buyer's premium from that $2000 bump. None of the other bidders are in a position to generate revenue from bidding.