Future National Locations - Same Old Story

[parkplace33]

Sorry, but below is my yearly rant about National locations

I heard a survey was sent out from the National about where future Nationals should be held. There were a few options, but the only locations included in those options were:

Chicago
Cleveland
Atlantic City

So again, I am disheartened to hear that it’s the same old story for National locations. No western or southern locations yet again.

Board members, I implore you to please look to other locations in the future. I think the National is limiting themselves by keeping to the same three locations. The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

[Leon]

From my perspective the National is not run anything like it used to be when Mike Berkus (RIP) was running it.
First of all they need to get a new committee....then go from there.

.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I have heard those same arguments for years.

Why would the arguments change?

If they had new and improved arguments you'd be happier?

[Leon]

Mike spoke at several of the Net54baseball dinners and laid out the reasoning for their venue choices. A lot of things have to be able to work. The size of the venue, the contract being some years out has to be able to be signed, unions, ingress and egress and cost, among the most important, as I remember.
They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.
One of my main issues is that tables are sold out for years, last time I checked. That just shouldn't happen.
.

[GasHouseGang]

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

You mean to Austin, right?

[STL1944]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

You mean to Austin, right?

YES! Austin PLEASE!

[5-Tool Player]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

+1

[Johnny630]

I would like to see Dallas, Las Vegas, Tampa...that would be cool.

Sure I'm all for keeping the Regular Spots as Chicago and Cleveland how about every other time a new somewhat different location. Dallas...Vegas...Tampa

[Johnny630]

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

[Snapolit1]

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

I used to work at a large international firm that has annual partner conference. I realize from speaking to people involved in the process that these things are a lot more complex that many people (including myself) imagine.

Many of you know from business travel that it's frequently cheaper to get a ticket to NY or Chicago than it is to get to Pittsburgh, St. Louis or Iowa City. If airline tickets are prohibitively high that could really cut into attendance.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

Personally I can't think of a worse place than California in my mind, but I think Vegas is a great idea and it would really be an event. Also a fan of a Dallas show.

Even south to Tampa or the NC, SC, Virginia area.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe higher a Logistic Consultant specializing in even location planning..idk.

But the counter argument will be. "It ain't broke, why fix it? You want us to sacrifice a known quantity that is amazingly successful for an unknown quantity in the hopes that it will be at least as good?"

[timzcardz]

When it's yours, then you can do what ever you want with it. They must being doing something right. You don't get to 42 by messing up.

And if that's not good enough for you, then why not step right up and start an even bigger and better one, perhaps The Continental Sports Collectors Convention! You could even rotate in Canada and Mexico too.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

They sell out every table every year in the current venues. They have all of the floor layouts in place for these 3 venues as well as all other logistics. They get the Atlantic City convention center for a pittance of what the others cost. They sold out of tickets last year for the show except daily admission. Why would they change a winner for themselves. This show is their living.

I have done the National for the last 12 years and I can assure you I would vote for Chicago every year. In fact, I just did on their new dealer vote for the next 3 years. I live 14 hours from Chicago, 12 hours from Cleveland, and 10 hours from Atlantic City so obviously I am willing to drive further for the Chicago market.

They will not make a drastic change to the venues. No Dallas, no St. Louis, no Las Vegas, no Orlando. Forget about it. It will not happen.

They will not risk a loser when they currently have 3 automatic winners.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

A lot of the venues named likely don't accept bookings several years in advance.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Leon

They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.

That is a big IF.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Mike spoke at several of the Net54baseball dinners and laid out the reasoning for their venue choices. A lot of things have to be able to work. The size of the venue, the contract being some years out has to be able to be signed, unions, ingress and egress and cost, among the most important, as I remember.
They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.
One of my main issues is that tables are sold out for years, last time I checked. That just shouldn't happen.
.

Whenever this topic comes up, I like to present the (rather lengthy) posts below from a thread on this forum in 2009 from Mike Berkus. 13 years is quite some time ago, but I think what he states from an insider view are probably still the factors under consideration, and why we still have the set venue sites from that time forward.

Brian


Just a quick note to consider. I hear the same issues that are being bounced around on the thread from our National dealers and our Board of Directors, so the questions and suggestions are not new but still worthy of listening to. It would be impossible to satisfy everyone, just not possible. Families traveling to the National have totally different needs than individual collectors. We tried to work out packages in Anaheim to Disneyland, Knotts, Angel games, etc. but the groups that we did our deals with were totally disappointed with the turnout of response and do not care to work with us anymore. Response was minimal and we were advised to just let those that want to see sights, booked their tickets or times on their own. It became apparent to us that we need to concentrate on our show rather than outside venues. We do try to include all different price hotels in our block of rooms and we usually know the areas well enough to suggest food and entertainment to those that ask but few attendees ask. As for smaller cities, i.e. Knoxville, two problems exist. First, the total amount of exhibit space advertised on their website is 120,000 sq ft. This is on the first floor only, additional floors have a combination of 250,000 sq ft but broken up. We cannot house a National in that small of a facility and certainly not in broken up space and different floors. Second issue is population. We expect at least 50% of our attendance to be of a local nature, within 1 hour drive to the facility. That means that a smaller base population could mean much smaller attendance. My life would be threatened by our dealer base if I made that mistake.

Trust me on a couple of fronts. After 30 years of the National, I am somewhat familiar with the primary issues of hosting a show. The following examples are listed by priority to us, as promoters. 1) facility - must be all on 1 floor with 300,000sq ft min. 2) decorator charge - Cleveland leads in permitting dealer easy set up, that is the absolute primary reason for our repeated visits. We pay the union/decorator $45 per dealer, upfront, to turn their backs on union rules. We do not pass this charge onto the dealer and we pay it for the entire room, every booth, regardless whether the dealer uses the service or not. It is a flat fee to us and run anywhere from $23k to $28K total. Without this, dealers would pay hundreds to wait inline with their inventories and have union workers deliver the stock to each booth. 3) is local population. We would like at least 15,000 local people to join us at the show. We have a local ad and marketing budget of $50,000.00 just to encourage the sports person to either come to buy items or sell what they may have been sitting on for years. 4) local expenses to our out of towners. This includes hotel, food, parking, etc. fees that we try to keep reasonable. 5) hours of the show. We know that 2-3 days is plenty for local attendees but persons who fly in or drive a great distance want as much value for their time as possible. Also dealers need to have a full slate of hours open, to guarantee a strong financial return on their investment. We could hardly expect a VIP attendee to pay $119 for the VIP package and only have 3 days of the show, less autograph tickets, or special product sets. Also, dealers do leave early on Sunday! This is a double edge sword to us. We do not want to impose sanctions on our dealer base. We are not in the police business and the more rules we impose the more problems we all face. Our promoter team has taken it's lumps for allowing dealers to leave early. We have to close our admission booths down at least 3 hours before we are officially closed to not cheat any attendees out of their time on the show and if some booths are empty. This results in a financial loss to us with about an average of 1000 or more attendees come into the show for free. What some dealers don't realize is that many large sales have been recorded by the dealers who stay until the end. But, the bottom line of responsibility, is our job. If we put 10,000 customers on the floor at 4:40pm on Sunday, dealers would stay. We just can't find that formula to gather consumer interest after 2-3pm. We continue to try.

Well, there you have it. The instant guide for promoting a National. On one hand, there is a ton of improvement that constantly needs to be reviewed. On the other hand, we must have done one or two things right, next year in Baltimore will be our 31st annual National. We have weathered the downswing in collecting, the negative press articles, bad economies, loss of local shows and collecting base, and even the attitudes of convention centers who do not want our business. As I mentioned before, we are taking serious looks at Las Vegas, Boston, St. Louis, and anywhere on the West Coast that comes close to matching the above priorities. Baltimore is getting a very strong and positive reaction by our hobby and that is a very good sign. Sometimes it's just up to attitude that can make a difference in how succesful our show is.

Anyway, keep the passion, without it we have no hobby. Even if it's in the form of a complaint. I have grown a couple layers of thick skin over the last 30 years and can handle a lot, just as long as the National survives.

Regards,

Mike Berkus


OK, there have been some very passionate comments made and some very complimentary statements as well. I thank Jim, Rich, Leon, and others who truly care about the National and attend with a love of this hobby. Many issues concerning the show are just not known by so many people. I think that most of you, once explained, understand what can and cannot be done. All sites of the National are voted on by the dealers. No one, myself included, can select a National location without the dealers voting. Anything that happens at our show, booth fees, site selection, expenses, decorating, etc. are approved by the Board of Directors (which I am not a member), before they are put in place. Our show is owned by the dealers and everything is decided by the dealers. Once the show location is approved, my team (John Broggi, Bob Wilke, and myself) are directed to operate the show under the terms laid out by the Board of Directors. We do not make these decisions on our own. It truly matters not to me where the dealers choose our show location, I am consumed by creating the marketing, advertising, and partnerships so desperately needed by the National, to make thing work best. My role is the same regardless of the site. For those of you who think I make all these decisions, check with the Board of Directors and you will find the truth. Truth be told, I am the least political of anyone. I just want the show to survive. It is a matter of pride. No one has more fun at a National than me. I live for it.

Most dealers and collectors do not care about the details of the show. They just want it right, when they get there. They want the booth selection that they picked out ready, tables, sign, and chairs. They want the show to open on time and have no cares what the fire marshall might desire or demand. I don't blame them! They pay the freight of the show and that means I work for them. Many of the participants of the National have no idea what we have discussed so far on this thread and could care less. As Rich said " the old dealer meetings lasted until 2am". Today, our dealer meetings last 15 minutes. Things run smooth because both the Board of Directors and our promotion group are on the same track. Keep it simple and do it right. If you want a scary moment, walk into a 500,000 sq ft facility 2 days before setup and take a hard look at an huge empty area. Then, worry about filling it up with dealers, attendees, corporate sponsors, and staffing. That always gets to me before each National. No matter how many shows I have done, I always worry that this one will fail. It is what keeps me honest and working hard.

Whether it is Frank wanting Knoxville or anyone else with ideas that differ from what we are doing currently, I am always interested in hearing about it. But, once the music starts, just like a ballgame, it is too late for talking we have a show to run. Aside from seems like my complaining, I wouldn't have it any other way. I love being part of the show and hope that some of the information I have passed on is helpful to you. I know that without your participation, we would be far worse off. We need all of you to care, imput ideas, and most of all, be at the show.

Good luck to everyone for the next year and if I can be of any help, my email is (edited it out). I truly enjoy hearing from you. Hope everyone can make it to Baltimore. Most importantly, stay well, none of us are young!

Best regards,

Mike

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Why would the arguments change?

If they had new and improved arguments you'd be happier?

Maybe. Or at least hear why from the National board.

[conor912]

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by conor912

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

Truer words have never been spoken.
And to honor the late Mike Berkus, I won this green E221 from him on ebay (always looking for more LOL) ....maybe 20? yrs ago. It was my first of numerous interactions with him over many years. If there weren't enough tables he would make room. He was a collector and had that mentality. I miss speaking with him. He was always so passionate. We got along great.

I was happy to get the card back after I sold it in 2015, with my collection sale.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by conor912

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

Well, I (for one) am not attending "The Regional" in Atlantic City this year. Way too much of a pain to get there from the west coast, and not worth the hassle.

I like the suggestions of Orlando, Nashville, and especially Vegas. Denver would be pretty cool as well. A good hub and centrally located with tons of direct flights. Sure wish they'd throw us a bone just once per decade.

[Sportsnutcards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Sorry, but below is my yearly rant about National locations

I heard a survey was sent out from the National about where future Nationals should be held. There were a few options, but the only locations included in those options were:

Chicago
Cleveland
Atlantic City

So again, I am disheartened to hear that it’s the same old story for National locations. No western or southern locations yet again.

Board members, I implore you to please look to other locations in the future. I think the National is limiting themselves by keeping to the same three locations. The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

Why should they change? The last 2 Nationals have been the busiest in terms of sales and attendance than any other previously except for 1991. I think Chicago is by far the most popular choice for dealers and collectors alike.

[5-Tool Player]

Originally Posted by Sportsnutcards

Why should they change? The last 2 Nationals have been the busiest in terms of sales and attendance than any other previously except for 1991. I think Chicago is by far the most popular choice for dealers and collectors alike.

Yes, Correct.....most attendance...but POST cover

[5-Tool Player]

sorry.....POST covid

[Rich Klein]

I know there have been successful events in Atlanta in the last couple of years but the NSCC was there in 92 and 99 and both those shows were frankly dreadful.

Heck. I LIVE in the DFW area and could take the train to the convention center and I don't want the show at the Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Dallas) Convention Center which is the only place big enough to hold the NSCC in the area. Not enough hotel rooms and not enough things nearby for dealers/colletors to go to after the show. They are working on re-doing the area and perhaps the updated Convention Center and Hotels can get enough people in.

And I know this may surprise you all but the people running the NSCC are aware of these comments and do look at other venues. Right now there are approximately 10-15 places which match the current requirements and most of them usually come up with some reason NOT to want us.

Don't you all think Mike Berkus, when he was with us, wanted to be in his home area of Anaheim after 2006. He would have constant talks with people in Anaheim and never got over the finish line again.

Sometimes it's how far out they wanted commitments, sometimes its how many hotel rooms.

Rich

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I know there have been successful events in Atlanta in the last couple of years but the NSCC was there in 92 and 99 and both those shows were frankly dreadful.

Heck. I LIVE in the DFW area and could take the train to the convention center and I don't want the show at the Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Dallas) Convention Center which is the only place big enough to hold the NSCC in the area. Not enough hotel rooms and not enough things nearby for dealers/colletors to go to after the show. They are working on re-doing the area and perhaps the updated Convention Center and Hotels can get enough people in.

And I know this may surprise you all but the people running the NSCC are aware of these comments and do look at other venues. Right now there are approximately 10-15 places which match the current requirements and most of them usually come up with some reason NOT to want us.

Don't you all think Mike Berkus, when he was with us, wanted to be in his home area of Anaheim after 2006. He would have constant talks with people in Anaheim and never got over the finish line again.

Sometimes it's how far out they wanted commitments, sometimes its how many hotel rooms.

Rich

Rich,

Appreciate the response.

For future Nationals, how does the board select? Does the board use a marketing company to do the legwork of logistics and finding a convention site? If not, would they consider it?

[chalupacollects]

Orlando would be a good spot. Great cool nvention center and most every airline flies there…


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[JollyElm]

On a side note...

I propose looking to Henry Ford (yes, I know he wasn't actually the originator) and do an Assembly Line National. All dealers are on a conveyor belt mechanism that snakes around the venue, bringing their tables to you, individually. Each visitor's entrance fee is used to secure a numbered spot on this 'parade' route. Each 'stop' lasts for a short, predetermined amount of time, allowing you to look over the seller's merch and try to negotiate a deal, if you choose to do so. When the bell whistles, it's time to get the line moving again. When it completes a full circuit and is ready to start a second lap, perhaps there's an Automatic Price Reduction of 10% (actual number to be determined by a collectors committee) on everything, and so on.

Perhaps during the first go-round, no sales are allowed. It is just a way for all attendees to see everything that's available, so you can plot your own fiscal strategy.

No more leg cramps, fatigue or dehydration. Hell, bring a beach chair and really enjoy the glorious cardboard like you do at home in your computer chair!!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

On a side note...

I propose looking to Henry Ford (yes, I know he wasn't actually the originator) and do an Assembly Line National. All dealers are on a conveyor belt mechanism that snakes around the venue, bringing their tables to you, individually. Each visitor's entrance fee is used to secure a numbered spot on this 'parade' route. Each 'stop' lasts for a short, predetermined amount of time, allowing you to look over the seller's merch and try to negotiate a deal, if you choose to do so. When the bell whistles, it's time to get the line moving again. When it completes a full circuit and is ready to start a second lap, perhaps there's an Automatic Price Reduction of 10% (actual number to be determined by a collectors committee) on everything, and so on.

Perhaps during the first go-round, no sales are allowed. It is just a way for all attendees to see everything that's available, so you can plot your own fiscal strategy.

No more leg cramps, fatigue or dehydration. Hell, bring a beach chair and really enjoy the glorious cardboard like you do at home in your computer chair!!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

Or like a Sushi Boat restaurant where you can grab anything you want and they'll ring you up at the end. I can see it now, "Did I really grab all of those pre-war delicacies?" and "why is my bill in the tens of thousands of dollars?"
_

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

If I remember correctly, Baltimore (2010) was one of the best national's in years. IMO still the best to date from 2010 to present.

BTW why is Kansas City MO not on the list. Everything is centralized around the P&L district and the convention center. If I remember correctly the KC convention center is very large and wide open. Located minutes from the airport and casinos also. Guess it all breaks down to who does it the cheapest to maximize profits for the National Committee.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

If I remember correctly, Baltimore (2010) was one of the best national's in years. IMO still the best to date from 2010 to present.

Yes, it was! I believe the National was there two years in a row. It is unlikely that the National will return there, the rumor was that the convention center doesn't book out far enough (a year maybe?).

[tbob]

The logistics for getting to Atlantic City rules it out for me. My personal preferences are, alternating, Chicago, Nashville and Minneapolis or Kansas City. I've been to too many shows in Cleveland and will never go to A/C so considering other cities is what I would like to see in the future. I remember the great Arlington, TX shows and wouldn't object to that as a landing site also.
Disney is seriously thinking about relocating WDW with all the insanity from DiSantis so they could probably be interested.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by tbob

The logistics for getting to Atlantic City rules it out for me. My personal preferences are, alternating, Chicago, Nashville and Minneapolis or Kansas City. I've been to too many shows in Cleveland and will never go to A/C so considering other cities is what I would like to see in the future. I remember the great Arlington, TX shows and wouldn't object to that as a landing site also.
Disney is seriously thinking about relocating WDW with all the insanity from DiSantis so they could probably be interested.

Disney isn’t going anywhere


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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by tbob

Disney is seriously thinking about relocating WDW.

Hahaha, yeah right sure they are.

And the city of San Francisco (similar in acreage to WDW) is sick of fog, so they are seriosly thinking about moving to Nevada.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Hahaha, yeah right sure they are.

And the city of San Francisco (similar in acreage to WDW) is sick of fog, so they are seriosly thinking about moving to Nevada.

Yeh, Disney is not moving. There is only one way Disney would be gone if they went bankrupt

[tbob]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Hahaha, yeah right sure they are.

And the city of San Francisco (similar in acreage to WDW) is sick of fog, so they are seriosly thinking about moving to Nevada.

Not even close to an analogy. DeSantis' ill-conceived push ending self-government for Disney is going to have an awful impact on not only Disney but local communities, businesses and taxpayers alike.
DeSantis introduced and successfully passed legislation dissolving Disney's Reedy Creek Improvement District effective in 2023, which allowed WDW to pay for and operate its municipal services privately, thereby saving the state of Florida and its taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars.
Taxpayers have filed suit claiming that DeSantis has infringed on their rights by passing the bill which would force the local governments of Osceola and Orange counties to take on at least $1-2 BILLION of Disney's bond debt and increase funding of emergency and municipal services. The population of these two counties is 1.7 million people.
Walt Disney is Florida's largest employer and companies who previously saw the state as "business friendly" may change their minds now that DeSantis has directed at Disney such 'wrath.'

You can laugh all you want and say Disney will never leave Florida but Disney is not closing the door on the possibility, according to many reports from insiders as reported by Newsweek and the Washington Post.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by tbob

The logistics for getting to Atlantic City rules it out for me. My personal preferences are, alternating, Chicago, Nashville and Minneapolis or Kansas City. I've been to too many shows in Cleveland and will never go to A/C so considering other cities is what I would like to see in the future. I remember the great Arlington, TX shows and wouldn't object to that as a landing site also.
Disney is seriously thinking about relocating WDW with all the insanity from DiSantis so they could probably be interested.

LOL. Disney will never relocate.

[todeen]

Although there is no MLB team, Spokane WA has the logistics to hold the National. We have major events here every year: Hoopfest 3 on 3 tournament, Bloomsday race, and tons of other events. Look up how many people attend Hoopfest (24k players) and Bloomsday (30k to 40k runners). Everything is walking distance downtown, and Riverfront Park and mall is a nice distraction. The Davenport Collection of hotels is top notch. Organizers could choose to hold the show in the convention center or the arena, both of which are walking distance to local hotels. And most hotels have shuttles to and from the airport, and to and from the convention center if someone doesn't want to walk. And if you want a beach day, Coeur d'Alene is 30 minutes drive away. CDA is gorgeous in the summertime.

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[chriskim]

Vegas Baby!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Vegas Baby!

Aside from space, not sure if this was said already, but the unions involved at some of the proposed venues were supposedly making it cost prohibitive. Not sure that was an excuse though.

Vegas would be awesome!

[Alexcards]

I never skip a National, but I'm not going to AC, decided to go to the Philly Show in September instead..... Chicago and Cleveland are great locations. I setup at the Culture Collision show in Atlanta this year and it was very well attended by both dealers and and patrons. It was run by a new group and I think they hit a Home Run.

[npa589]

Without reading any previous comments, I have long believed that if the National came to West Palm Beach, FL, it might never leave.

There is a beautiful convention center in downtown West Palm, surrounded by hotels, and across the street from Ruth Chris, and a myriad of other restaurant and shopping options (Rosemary Square). That doesn't even include Clematis street, which is just a tiny bit further, and triples your options for post card-geeking enjoyment. It's also a 4 minute walk from the intracoastal, and 15-20 minute walk (5 minute drive) to the Atlantic Ocean. There are also a couple churches nearby if you're feeling religious.

It's a straight shot from Belvedere to 95 to Okeechobee, or Belvedere to Dixie to Okeechobee. You have the Brightline train that quickly can take you to Miami and back as well. Need I say more?

:-)

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by npa589

Without reading any previous comments, I have long believed that if the National came to West Palm Beach, FL, it might never leave.

There is a beautiful convention center in downtown West Palm, surrounded by hotels, and across the street from Ruth Chris, and a myriad of other restaurant and shopping options (Rosemary Square). That doesn't even include Clematis street, which is just a tiny bit further, and triples your options for post card-geeking enjoyment. It's also a 4 minute walk from the intracoastal, and 15-20 minute walk (5 minute drive) to the Atlantic Ocean. There are also a couple churches nearby if you're feeling religious.

It's a straight shot from Belvedere to 95 to Okeechobee, or Belvedere to Dixie to Okeechobee. You have the Brightline train that quickly can take you to Miami and back as well. Need I say more?

:-)

Wow looks amazing !!! I'm down for West Palm Beach Close to SGC no reason for them not to grade on-site there.

[55koufax]

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

Out of curiosity, where were Chicago, Cleveland, and Atlantic City on that list, assuming they were included as well?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

Umm, might want to open an atlas. Santa Monica is in a different county than Anaheim and 42 miles away. You are doing the equivalent of citing crime stats from Baltimore to prove a point about Washington DC (actually, they are closer). Anaheim's crime stats are right about average with the rest of the country. Atlantic City's crime rate is higher than most of the country and it has one of the highest murder rates. So we have that going for us this summer, which is nice.

We won't have a west coast show because none of the dealers based in the east and who have the most influence on the show's organizers want to hump their stuff over the Rockies and through Death Valley in July in the family minivan.

[Brian Van Horn]

Well, with Cleveland, it would be a new building since they closed the one that the national was held and removed the Ferris wheel.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Well, with Cleveland, it would be a new building since they closed the one that the national was held and removed the Ferris wheel.

No, same building, they're just getting rid of the ferris wheel.

FYI - The ferris wheel was there for roughly 30+ or so years as part of the annual IX Indoor Amusement Park that went on inside the building. It stopped with the Covid pandemic starting in 2020. There is talk of bringing the amusement park back, starting in 2023, but for now the ferris wheel is to be removed as part of renovations being made to the building.

[Jewish-collector]

There are many locations/venues that can't host the National for one reason or another:

Some venues are too small and/or don't have enough hotel rooms
Some venues are not convenient to airports
Some venues/cities the union stuff too expensive and/or other legal issues
Some venues charge too much for having events in their building
Some venues/cities are not good baseball and/or sports towns
Some venues don't want it scheduled too far in the future.
etc,... etc,... etc,...

After all of this analysis, it turns out Chicago (and Cleveland before the IX closed) were the only two cities that check all the boxes with the National committee and this is why they were alternating between these two. Now, since the IX reopened, Cleveland may or may not become a regular venue for the show. And, Atlantic City may or may not also be in the discussion. We shall see.