barry halper forgeries

[khkco4bls]

Great article in the new york post, 2 pages about all the fake stuff from his collection. Good read and an eye opener that all of these people were duped out of millions.

[HRBAKER]

He certainly found the right hobby.

[Shoeless Moe]

I like how some auction companies still promote "ex-Halper" item, like that is a good thing. To me it triggers, possible fake.

[perezfan]

Anyone have the link to the article?

[mr2686]

I think this is it:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/t...J2lj2tRkXhIfzH

[perezfan]

Thanks Mike

[stone193]

I read the article and want to believe that he obtained these items and thought they were genuine?

Perhaps I'm an eternal optimist.

However, the evidence is mounting and the Halper name may be getting as bad as some of the items he sold to ML BB and at auction in 1999.

[HRBAKER]

The question then becomes did he still think they were genuine when they were sold?

[packs]

Don't auction houses have a responsibility to authenticate their items before they are sold? How did Barry Halper become such an authority on memorabilia that because he said he bought something it was considered authentic?

[barrysloate]

Sotheby's hired independent experts to authenticate the uniforms and autographs for the sale.

[Hankphenom]

It would be interesting to know who did "authenticate" the proven bogus items sold or auctioned from the Halper collection, and if anything at all got bounced by the experts and consultants (wasn't Rob Lifson the main guy?) retained for the project? In other words, did any of the hobby heavyweights getting paid for their participation raise any red flags about the apparently vast number of questionable items they must have seen coming out of the collection?

[benjulmag]

Putting aside the hypocrisy of the person alleging the improprieties, as to the letter press copy (not the original but the era's "carbon copy") with the Hawaiian archives stamp that was purportedly stolen from the Archives, if memory serves me correctly, I think it should be mentioned that the letter was sold by Anne Cartwright, widow of William Cartwright, Alexander Cartwright's great-grandson, to the auction house that auctioned it to the person who later transacted it to Halper. Assuming this is true, then if I had to choose between the letter being stolen, or deaccessioned and returned to its original owner, I would say the latter is more likely. As to the original Knickerbocker baseball referred to in the article, from the perspective of one who was discussing same with Anne Cartwright at the time Halper purchased it, while I had questions whether it was a Knickerbocker baseball, I had no doubt Halper thought it was at the time he purchased it.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

It would be interesting to know who did "authenticate" the proven bogus items sold or auctioned from the Halper collection, and if anything at all got bounced by the experts and consultants (wasn't Rob Lifson the main guy?) retained for the project? In other words, did any of the hobby heavyweights getting paid for their participation raise any red flags about the apparently vast number of questionable items they must have seen coming out of the collection?

I looked briefly at The Halper catalog and it only lists the authenticator for uniforms.
That authenticator is Grey Flannel.
No authenticator is listed for autographs, no grader for cards, unless I missed that listing somewhere.

[Piedmont Sport]

Real concerns are much larger then just a few items passed thru auction houses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have owned and sold autographs and baseballs from the Halper estate all certed by PSA and JSA ---- My guess is that if it came from Halper ,,,, major companies would assume it's good. That was then ,,, now the reverse is true - it must be bad - for all the right reasons. Our hobby is smeared by BAD Auction Houses ,,, and no accountability ,,,,,,,,, It's now down to 2 companies PSA and JSA which becomes a HUGE issue because customers are buying the cert and not the autograph. You can disagree but i do so many conventions dealer and client are saying the same thing. We are now in a pissing contest between both companies - and as a seller i'm sick of it all ,, so you can imagine how the buyer must feel. Marketing has made us all accept PSA and JSA along with any other company ,,,, making us think it's REAL. Yet everyday another story uncovers more fraud and mistakes ,,,, Our hobby would be served by regulations and certifactions along with education. MAKE THE COMPANY ISSUING THE CERT RESPONSABLE FOR ERRORS AND WE MAY SEE LESS OF THEM.

[Hankphenom]

Wow--nobody vouching for this stuff, other than the reputations of the names associated with the auction (Sothebys, Lifson, anybody else?)? Except for the uniforms (Grey Flannel), which seems to be the most problematic area of the collection. How's that for irony? And who passed the unis for Grey Flannel? This was the dawn of the "authentication era," I guess, and everybody was lulled by the Halper name and legend. There must be a lot of second looks being taken now.

[prewarsports]

Sal Bando must have been involved somehow!

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.

[Hankphenom]

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.[/QUOTE]

Good points all.

[David Atkatz]

I think the crucial point here is that, no matter how you look at it, Halper was a sleaze.

[slidekellyslide]

Since that auction guys like Dave Grob, Troy Kinunen, Dave Bushing and others put a tremendous amount of work into documenting uniforms...and I'm sure back then Barry Halper's word was gold in the memorabilia industry...afterall he pretty much started the memorabilia industry so I can understand Grey Flannel passing those uniforms...at the time the work just hadn't been done yet concerning photo matching, documentation of what team was wearing what companies uniforms, et cetera.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Sal Bando must have been involved somehow!

Uniforms aside (and there were questions about most of those at the time which is why they went so cheap) I bet 99.9% of the rest of the items were all ok and I bet the overall amount of fraudulent items in the Halper estate were on par or maybe even better than what Major Auctions get now (before scrutiny and authentication), we just have the benefit of modern technology.

I completely agree with this statement. The early Uniforms' credibility issues speak for themselves. But the vast majority of other items in this auction were unquestionably good (Trophies, Statues, Pennants, Broadsides, Posters, Photos, Gloves, Equipment, Jewelry, Fans, Scorers, Programs, Sheet Music, and on and on...)

I would believe that less than 1% of the total items sold were bad or misrepresented. Granted, there were some landmark pieces with some disturbing intent to deceive (which should not be forgiven).

But just because an item came from the Halper sale doesn't make it bad. To Rhys' point, the odds of an item being bad from the Halper sale are no different than any other auction (and probably preferential to ebay).

Also... the question came up about authentication. It may not be stated, but I had heard numerous times that Mike Gutierrez was the authenticator for most of the autographed items (fwiw).

[GrayGhost]

so sad. I recall the auction catalogue and the video w Billy Martin. Sooo very sad indeed.

[tinkereversandme]

Let me tell you what I think is sad. What's sad is that Halper has been long gone and Nash continues to plant the same story/stories everywhere. How about at one point, Mr. Nash put as much effort in exposing Mr. Halper into perhaps exposing Coach's or their authenticators. After all, he loves pre-war baseball and he knows how rare those signatures are and shouldn't he be just as outraged with the endless supply of Mike Kelly's and Ed Plank's and Tim Keefe's and Dan Brouthers' that this fine company spits out every month. Mr. Nash, did you see that bat that John Clarkson signed and dated 1885 that didn't even fetch a grand a while back? Go to www.myccsa.com and let's put our focus there.

Let's see how we can plug the hole now...what's done is/was done and can we please stop what's going on now!

Regards,

Larry

[David Atkatz]

Well, there is a bit of a difference, Larry. For starters, Coaches Corner garbage is not on display at the Hall of Fame, in the "Coaches Corner Room."

[slidekellyslide]

Has anyone else noticed that Mr Nash hasn't said a peep about forged trophy balls?

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/04/06/35546.htm

[RichardSimon]

delete

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

Real concerns are much larger then just a few items passed thru auction houses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have owned and sold autographs and baseballs from the Halper estate all certed by PSA and JSA ---- My guess is that if it came from Halper ,,,, major companies would assume it's good. That was then ,,, now the reverse is true - it must be bad - for all the right reasons. Our hobby is smeared by BAD Auction Houses ,,, and no accountability ,,,,,,,,, It's now down to 2 companies PSA and JSA which becomes a HUGE issue because customers are buying the cert and not the autograph. You can disagree but i do so many conventions dealer and client are saying the same thing. We are now in a pissing contest between both companies - and as a seller i'm sick of it all ,, so you can imagine how the buyer must feel. Marketing has made us all accept PSA and JSA along with any other company ,,,, making us think it's REAL. Yet everyday another story uncovers more fraud and mistakes ,,,, Our hobby would be served by regulations and certifactions along with education. MAKE THE COMPANY ISSUING THE CERT RESPONSABLE FOR ERRORS AND WE MAY SEE LESS OF THEM.

Well said Frank,, "marketing, sick of it all, dealers and clients saying the same thing, more fraud and mistakes",,, I for one would never use those companies in my business, but others do, including you.

[Big Dave]

IN CHARGE OF THE BARRY HALPER AUCTION SALE:

ROBERT EDWARD AUCTIONS

A few of the significant accomplishments of Robert Edward Auctions and REA President Robert Lifson include:

The Barry Halper Collection: When Barry Halper sold his legendary collection, universally recognized as the best and by far the largest in the world, he insisted that Robert Edward Auctions oversee the historic sale. The Halper Collection realized over Twenty-Six Million Dollars.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...r_Auction.html



AUTOGRAPH AUTHENTICATOR FOR THE BARRY HALPER AUCTION.

AUTOGRAPHS: MIKE GUTIERREZ

"Most notably, he authenticated all the sports autograph material from the Barry Halper Collection sold by Sotheby's in 1998."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/app...rrez_mike.html



AUTHENTICATORS OF ALL THE UNIFORMS IN THE BARRY HALPER AUCTION.

UNIFORMS: GREY FLANNEL

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=3631

The whole article is worth the time to read.

The Sotheby’s catalogue indicates that Grey Flannel “authenticated all uniforms and apparel” sold in the Halper sale, including the 1907 Collins jersey. Grey Flannel, located in Westhampton, Long Island, states on their company website that, “In 1998 Grey Flannel was hired by Sotheby’s to authenticate the uniform collection of Barry Halper. Mr. Halper’s collection rivaled that of the Baseball Hall of Fame in scope and was offered in auction during the early part of the summer of 1999.”

In the 1999 Sotheby’s catalogue, Grey Flannel indicated they had worked with the Hall of Fame while authenticating Halper’s uniform holdings and made a point to extend their thanks to the Baseball Hall of Fame Library for, ”their time and effort assisting in our research as it proved to be invaluable.”

[Piedmont Sport]

You are correct Richard ,,, I use them because it's public demand - and ebay demand ....... BUT ,,,,,, we are slowing moving away from those companies. And David you are so on target with your thoughts ,,,,, Halper's Stuff is all over the Place and should not be compared to coaches corner ,,,,, Thier so F'd up only a fool would purchase from them. Let's give credit to all those who are searching to do the right thing ,,,,, spend the time and effort for the good of the hobby rather then make 3rd party companies rich. ---- STAMP OUT AUCTIONS ,,, would really like to know the background of most of these people.

[horzverti]

I guess the General George Washington c. 1778 rookie Superbas jersey I bought from Halper is fake too. I should have known by the Majestic label sewn at the bottom. LOL!
I like the reference to Halper as the "Madoff of Memoribilia" line at the end of the article.
I never met Barry, but unfortunately I know a few like him. Good thing is that I know hundreds of us that aren't like him.

[murphusa]

Does anyone know that coaches corner also has a wholesale operation. They sell to smaller mall type stores, antique shop and the sort.

[tinkereversandme]

With all due respect, I wasn't comparing Coach's to Halper. If you read Nash's site, he has done other stories that don't involve the Hall Of Fame or Halper, like the one on James Spence, and his stuff doesn't show up in the Hall, does it? If Nash adores turn of the century baseball as he does, why not look into an outfit who seems to have it all is all I am saying.

Halper gets what he deserved I suppose, but a lot of the stuff he sold was in fact good and now since high dollar items are bad, everything is bad?

And those who authenticated originally should have some blame as well at the very end as well, Mike and Flannel.

Larry

[David Atkatz]

It's not so much some stuff was bad, Larry. It's the bullshit stories Halper invented to go with the crap. He knew that stuff was bad.

And one thing (Halper) has nothing to do with the other (Coach's). You might as well complain that AIDS researchers are doing nothing about curing cancer. Nash isn't responsible for outing every bit of fraud in the baseball memorabilia world.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

And one thing (Halper) has nothing to do with the other (Coach's). You might as well complain that AIDS researchers are doing nothing about curing cancer. Nash isn't responsible for outing every bit of fraud in the baseball memorabilia world.

Yeah, but he's out crusading while hiding the fact that "The Nash Collection" may be one of the biggest frauds in the history of our hobby.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Yeah, but he's out crusading while hiding the fact that "The Nash Collection" may be one of the biggest frauds in the history of our hobby.

I don't know the whole story, that's for sure....but every time I see something about Nash I can't help but thinking about this.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

You are correct Richard ,,, I use them because it's public demand - and ebay demand ....... BUT ,,,,,, we are slowing moving away from those companies. And David you are so on target with your thoughts ,,,,, Halper's Stuff is all over the Place and should not be compared to coaches corner ,,,,, Thier so F'd up only a fool would purchase from them. Let's give credit to all those who are searching to do the right thing ,,,,, spend the time and effort for the good of the hobby rather then make 3rd party companies rich. ---- STAMP OUT AUCTIONS ,,, would really like to know the background of most of these people.

Ebay does not demand that you use those authenticators, you know that.
It is solely an ebay RECOMMENDATION.
But it does seem that since you are so openly critical of them and the tactics they have used to gain the niche in the market that they have, that you would stand by the words that you posted here and stop using them.
You do not need a third party COA to sell an autograph on ebay.
As I state clearly in my ebay ads, I guarantee and authenticate my own items.
State that in your ebay ads and you will not be breaking any ebay rules.

[Piedmont Sport]

At that point Richard we need to shut down all 3rd party authentication - because someone we always find another person to disagree - we as a company do offer 100% return policy and we have a form completed by our atty. that each buyer agrees to sign and notarized on the spot ,,,,, and it's insured by Marsh & Mclands - I wonder how many other dealers offer that return policy. I can't tell you how many items that are rejected and re-submitted that once failed and now passed. It's a shame ,,, this bullshit goes back many years ,,,,, and auction houses are a real source to hide bullshit. Every dealer I know struggles with all these issues ,, we need to stay in biz and the rules are PSA or JSA ,,,,,, At the National thier booths will be none stop busy.

[RichardSimon]

The autograph hobby thrived for years without 3rd party authentication.
In the good old days, you had a dealer you could trust and you asked him for an opinion on another autograph. That dealer, I did this in many instances, would gladly give his opinion to good customers.
I would gladly go back to those days in a heartbeat, even if it would cost me money.

[David Atkatz]

+1

[ptr002]

Another point of view and a reply from Jason Halper to some of the allegations from Nash.

Paul Rozga


http://www.baseballdigest.com/2011/0...-halper-smear/

[David Atkatz]

Peter Nash has a conflict of interest which makes him unqualified to report on Halper's scams (according to Healey.)

Healey's article (which consists of little other than naysaying) then presents a long defensive quote from Halper's son Jason. No conflict of interest there!

Can you say "hypocrite"?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Peter Nash has a conflict of interest which makes him unqualified to report on Halper's scams (according to Healey.)

Healey's article (which consists of little other than naysaying) then presents a long defensive quote from Halper's son Jason. No conflict of interest there!

Can you say "hypocrite"?

There are degrees of hypocrisy...Personally I see Peter Nash leading the crusade against Barry Halper to be much higher on the scale than some writer I've never heard of enlisting Barry Halper's son to give his dad's side of the story.

What would you say if Coaches Corner set up a blog going after fraud in the Autograph industry without discussing their own part in it?

[SmokeyJoe1912]

This is all so confusing. Shouldn't it be easy for Halper's family to verify his claims? For example, did he play for Miami or not? How could autographs Halper got personally be deemed forgeries? (Can someone forge his own name?)

[Mark]

Originally Posted by SmokeyJoe1912

This is all so confusing. Shouldn't it be easy for Halper's family to verify his claims? For example, did he play for Miami or not? How could autographs Halper got personally be deemed forgeries? (Can someone forge his own name?)

If I recall, he was at Miami, but only after Foxx left. Thus, his story about getting the autograph cannot be true.

[tinkereversandme]

Aids, David? Your counter arguments are always amusing. Sports Illustrated doesn't just deal with one sport and I'm not asking Nash to report about faberge egg reproductions. It's all related. After all, he did post an anti-JSA piece, didn't he? Nash is agenda driven, as is most sites who want to point out the errors of those they dislike as they attempt to make a difference with their agenda. Nobody does any good for the hobby when they do this.

And this is 2011, it's essential with this technology to trust someone when buying autographs. As much as we want to go back to the old days, it isn't going to happen. We buy through scans and catalogs now since shows are dead and there has to be someone to trust and it's just too bad there are so many scam artists out there posing as authenticators.

Larry

[SmokeyJoe1912]

Originally Posted by Mark

If I recall, he was at Miami, but only after Foxx left. Thus, his story about getting the autograph cannot be true.

Ok, thanks. So he did pitch at Miami after Foxx was there?

[travrosty]

no, he never pitched at miami, he never set foot on the ball field there. No record of him on the roster, or in the team photographs.

The captain of the miami squad who played there for three years both when foxx was coach and the year after, affirmed that halper was never on the squad.

"If Halper pitched for the team, he was a ghost" was the quote he used.

Halper also gave two differing stories about how Foxx and Ott both signed the sheet.

One version has Foxx telling him to bring the sheet in and both he and Ott will sign it at the same time. The other version has Halper bringing the sheet to the field to have Foxx sign it, and then Ott supposedly signed it later.

He also had two stories on how the Ruth autograph got on the 500 homerun sheet. One story is that he got Ruth's autograph personally in 1948 on Babe Ruth day at Yankee Stadium. The other story is that his father gave him the sheet with Ruth's signature already on it.

The Ruth signature on the 500 homerun sheet matches the two signatures on the Babe Ruth hair display letter of provenance and envelope that Halper said he traded an Iowa collector for. All three signatures match exactly, and all are forgeries in the opinion of nearly everybody.