Future National Locations - Same Old Story

[parkplace33]

Sorry, but below is my yearly rant about National locations

I heard a survey was sent out from the National about where future Nationals should be held. There were a few options, but the only locations included in those options were:

Chicago
Cleveland
Atlantic City

So again, I am disheartened to hear that it’s the same old story for National locations. No western or southern locations yet again.

Board members, I implore you to please look to other locations in the future. I think the National is limiting themselves by keeping to the same three locations. The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

[Leon]

From my perspective the National is not run anything like it used to be when Mike Berkus (RIP) was running it.
First of all they need to get a new committee....then go from there.

.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I have heard those same arguments for years.

Why would the arguments change?

If they had new and improved arguments you'd be happier?

[Leon]

Mike spoke at several of the Net54baseball dinners and laid out the reasoning for their venue choices. A lot of things have to be able to work. The size of the venue, the contract being some years out has to be able to be signed, unions, ingress and egress and cost, among the most important, as I remember.
They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.
One of my main issues is that tables are sold out for years, last time I checked. That just shouldn't happen.
.

[GasHouseGang]

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

[Johnny630]

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

You mean to Austin, right?

[Snapolit1]

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

I used to work at a large international firm that has annual partner conference. I realize from speaking to people involved in the process that these things are a lot more complex that many people (including myself) imagine.

Many of you know from business travel that it's frequently cheaper to get a ticket to NY or Chicago than it is to get to Pittsburgh, St. Louis or Iowa City. If airline tickets are prohibitively high that could really cut into attendance.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Leon

They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.

That is a big IF.

[conor912]

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

[STL1944]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

You mean to Austin, right?

YES! Austin PLEASE!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

Personally I can't think of a worse place than California in my mind, but I think Vegas is a great idea and it would really be an event. Also a fan of a Dallas show.

Even south to Tampa or the NC, SC, Virginia area.

[Sportsnutcards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Sorry, but below is my yearly rant about National locations

I heard a survey was sent out from the National about where future Nationals should be held. There were a few options, but the only locations included in those options were:

Chicago
Cleveland
Atlantic City

So again, I am disheartened to hear that it’s the same old story for National locations. No western or southern locations yet again.

Board members, I implore you to please look to other locations in the future. I think the National is limiting themselves by keeping to the same three locations. The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

Why should they change? The last 2 Nationals have been the busiest in terms of sales and attendance than any other previously except for 1991. I think Chicago is by far the most popular choice for dealers and collectors alike.

[Yoda]

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

[steve B]

Arizona...

Call it cardpocalypse and hold it at the burning man site in the black rock desert. All flea market style.
Table discounts for yellowed toploaders.
Bonus discounts if they have dust in them that goes back to the Reagan administration.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

I know it was in the 1990's but the 2 Atlanta shows were frankly speaking absolutely terrible

My favorite locations for the NSCC based on being able to attend or deal and have things within walking distance have been

Chicago/Rosemont
St. Louis
Baltimore
Anaheim

San Francisco back in 1987 was not bad on that level

[Casey2296]

Las Vegas seems to be a viable option, they're in the business of hosting conventions. SF is just a sh*t hole now.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by conor912

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

Truer words have never been spoken.
And to honor the late Mike Berkus, I won this green E221 from him on ebay (always looking for more LOL) ....maybe 20? yrs ago. It was my first of numerous interactions with him over many years. If there weren't enough tables he would make room. He was a collector and had that mentality. I miss speaking with him. He was always so passionate. We got along great.

I was happy to get the card back after I sold it in 2015, with my collection sale.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe higher a Logistic Consultant specializing in even location planning..idk.

But the counter argument will be. "It ain't broke, why fix it? You want us to sacrifice a known quantity that is amazingly successful for an unknown quantity in the hopes that it will be at least as good?"

[timzcardz]

When it's yours, then you can do what ever you want with it. They must being doing something right. You don't get to 42 by messing up.

And if that's not good enough for you, then why not step right up and start an even bigger and better one, perhaps The Continental Sports Collectors Convention! You could even rotate in Canada and Mexico too.

[nineunder71]

I would feel safer in Russia than Atlantic City

[chalupacollects]

Orlando would be a good spot. Great cool nvention center and most every airline flies there…


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[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

The last time a national was outside those three locations was 2012 (Baltimore). That was 10 years ago! What are the reasons for keeping it same old? And please don’t say logistics or convention center size. I have heard those same arguments for years.

If I remember correctly, Baltimore (2010) was one of the best national's in years. IMO still the best to date from 2010 to present.

BTW why is Kansas City MO not on the list. Everything is centralized around the P&L district and the convention center. If I remember correctly the KC convention center is very large and wide open. Located minutes from the airport and casinos also. Guess it all breaks down to who does it the cheapest to maximize profits for the National Committee.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Why would the arguments change?

If they had new and improved arguments you'd be happier?

Maybe. Or at least hear why from the National board.

[JollyElm]

On a side note...

I propose looking to Henry Ford (yes, I know he wasn't actually the originator) and do an Assembly Line National. All dealers are on a conveyor belt mechanism that snakes around the venue, bringing their tables to you, individually. Each visitor's entrance fee is used to secure a numbered spot on this 'parade' route. Each 'stop' lasts for a short, predetermined amount of time, allowing you to look over the seller's merch and try to negotiate a deal, if you choose to do so. When the bell whistles, it's time to get the line moving again. When it completes a full circuit and is ready to start a second lap, perhaps there's an Automatic Price Reduction of 10% (actual number to be determined by a collectors committee) on everything, and so on.

Perhaps during the first go-round, no sales are allowed. It is just a way for all attendees to see everything that's available, so you can plot your own fiscal strategy.

No more leg cramps, fatigue or dehydration. Hell, bring a beach chair and really enjoy the glorious cardboard like you do at home in your computer chair!!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

On a side note...

I propose looking to Henry Ford (yes, I know he wasn't actually the originator) and do an Assembly Line National. All dealers are on a conveyor belt mechanism that snakes around the venue, bringing their tables to you, individually. Each visitor's entrance fee is used to secure a numbered spot on this 'parade' route. Each 'stop' lasts for a short, predetermined amount of time, allowing you to look over the seller's merch and try to negotiate a deal, if you choose to do so. When the bell whistles, it's time to get the line moving again. When it completes a full circuit and is ready to start a second lap, perhaps there's an Automatic Price Reduction of 10% (actual number to be determined by a collectors committee) on everything, and so on.

Perhaps during the first go-round, no sales are allowed. It is just a way for all attendees to see everything that's available, so you can plot your own fiscal strategy.

No more leg cramps, fatigue or dehydration. Hell, bring a beach chair and really enjoy the glorious cardboard like you do at home in your computer chair!!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

Or like a Sushi Boat restaurant where you can grab anything you want and they'll ring you up at the end. I can see it now, "Did I really grab all of those pre-war delicacies?" and "why is my bill in the tens of thousands of dollars?"
_

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Personally I can't think of a worse place than California in my mind, but I think Vegas is a great idea and it would really be an event. Also a fan of a Dallas show.

Even south to Tampa or the NC, SC, Virginia area.

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

I would feel safer in Russia than Atlantic City

Interesting. I've been going to AC for 40 years and never had an incident.

Lots of people are experts on New York City, Atlantic City and even Chicago crime who have either never been there or have been there once 17 years ago.

[19cbb]

Orlando, please.

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Orlando, please.

Definitely no crime, drugs or hookers in South Florida. No sir. Clean as a whistle.

[rajah424]

Orlando is a long way from South Florida

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Interesting. I've been going to AC for 40 years and never had an incident.

Lots of people are experts on New York City, Atlantic City and even Chicago crime who have either never been there or have been there once 17 years ago.

I can say from experience that the most dangerous place in AC is the craps table

[darkhorse9]

How about Nashville.

They can handle it and the city is a day's driving trip away from a pretty much half the entire nation.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by conor912

Everyone is gonna go no matter where it is. The organizers know this and they already have the logistics of Cle/Chi/AC worked out. They have zero incentive to add more cities.

Well, I (for one) am not attending "The Regional" in Atlantic City this year. Way too much of a pain to get there from the west coast, and not worth the hassle.

I like the suggestions of Orlando, Nashville, and especially Vegas. Denver would be pretty cool as well. A good hub and centrally located with tons of direct flights. Sure wish they'd throw us a bone just once per decade.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

I agree, I am in Ft Myers

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

I would go for Tampa too.

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

How about Nashville.

They can handle it and the city is a day's driving trip away from a pretty much half the entire nation.

Was just getting ready to suggest Nashville. They have everything needed for a big show.

[Exhibitman]

If it isn't going to be held west of the Mississippi, and is only going to be in one of those three places, just stick the damned thing in Chicago permanently and be done with it. Easy air transportation hub, and the best and most convenient hotels and eateries relative to the show itself. AC is a PITA for anyone coming from more than a few hours' drive away. I mean, what are we doing there, remaking Planes, Trains and Automobiles? 'cuz that's what it feels like to work out the logistics of getting to AC.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If it isn't going to be held west of the Mississippi, and is only going to be in one of those three places, just stick the damned thing in Chicago permanently and be done with it. Easy air transportation hub, and the best and most convenient hotels and eateries relative to the show itself. AC is a PITA for anyone coming from more than a few hours' drive away. I mean, what are we doing there, remaking Planes, Trains and Automobiles? 'cuz that's what it feels like to work out the logistics of getting to AC.

Lmao !! Agee on you’re sentiment!!

[Huck]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

If I remember correctly, Baltimore (2010) was one of the best national's in years. IMO still the best to date from 2010 to present.

Yes, it was! I believe the National was there two years in a row. It is unlikely that the National will return there, the rumor was that the convention center doesn't book out far enough (a year maybe?).

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

They sell out every table every year in the current venues. They have all of the floor layouts in place for these 3 venues as well as all other logistics. They get the Atlantic City convention center for a pittance of what the others cost. They sold out of tickets last year for the show except daily admission. Why would they change a winner for themselves. This show is their living.

I have done the National for the last 12 years and I can assure you I would vote for Chicago every year. In fact, I just did on their new dealer vote for the next 3 years. I live 14 hours from Chicago, 12 hours from Cleveland, and 10 hours from Atlantic City so obviously I am willing to drive further for the Chicago market.

They will not make a drastic change to the venues. No Dallas, no St. Louis, no Las Vegas, no Orlando. Forget about it. It will not happen.

They will not risk a loser when they currently have 3 automatic winners.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

A lot of the venues named likely don't accept bookings several years in advance.

[5-Tool Player]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

+1

[5-Tool Player]

Originally Posted by Sportsnutcards

Why should they change? The last 2 Nationals have been the busiest in terms of sales and attendance than any other previously except for 1991. I think Chicago is by far the most popular choice for dealers and collectors alike.

Yes, Correct.....most attendance...but POST cover

[Johnny630]

I would like to see Dallas, Las Vegas, Tampa...that would be cool.

Sure I'm all for keeping the Regular Spots as Chicago and Cleveland how about every other time a new somewhat different location. Dallas...Vegas...Tampa

[5-Tool Player]

sorry.....POST covid

[Rich Klein]

I know there have been successful events in Atlanta in the last couple of years but the NSCC was there in 92 and 99 and both those shows were frankly dreadful.

Heck. I LIVE in the DFW area and could take the train to the convention center and I don't want the show at the Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Dallas) Convention Center which is the only place big enough to hold the NSCC in the area. Not enough hotel rooms and not enough things nearby for dealers/colletors to go to after the show. They are working on re-doing the area and perhaps the updated Convention Center and Hotels can get enough people in.

And I know this may surprise you all but the people running the NSCC are aware of these comments and do look at other venues. Right now there are approximately 10-15 places which match the current requirements and most of them usually come up with some reason NOT to want us.

Don't you all think Mike Berkus, when he was with us, wanted to be in his home area of Anaheim after 2006. He would have constant talks with people in Anaheim and never got over the finish line again.

Sometimes it's how far out they wanted commitments, sometimes its how many hotel rooms.

Rich

[todeen]

Although there is no MLB team, Spokane WA has the logistics to hold the National. We have major events here every year: Hoopfest 3 on 3 tournament, Bloomsday race, and tons of other events. Look up how many people attend Hoopfest (24k players) and Bloomsday (30k to 40k runners). Everything is walking distance downtown, and Riverfront Park and mall is a nice distraction. The Davenport Collection of hotels is top notch. Organizers could choose to hold the show in the convention center or the arena, both of which are walking distance to local hotels. And most hotels have shuttles to and from the airport, and to and from the convention center if someone doesn't want to walk. And if you want a beach day, Coeur d'Alene is 30 minutes drive away. CDA is gorgeous in the summertime.

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[chriskim]

Vegas Baby!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Vegas Baby!

Aside from space, not sure if this was said already, but the unions involved at some of the proposed venues were supposedly making it cost prohibitive. Not sure that was an excuse though.

Vegas would be awesome!