When did basketball stop becoming a contact sport?

[bk400]

After banging my head against the wall for years as a Knicks fan during the prime Jordan years, I took a break from watching basketball.

Went to a game at the Garden recently. It was still awesome to go back to the Garden, but the basketball has changed.

No one plays defense. I mean, anyone who plays defense gets called for a foul. No offense to any LeBron fans, but there is no doubt that Jordan is the GOAT. Just by virtue of the fact that Jordan played against guys that were actually allowed to try to stop him from driving to the basket.

Guys like Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason wouldn't get spot on a roster in today's NBA. Not sure Shaq would either, unless he learned how to do a step-back 3.

[philliesfan]

I do not know much about basketball but I agree with what you are saying. I agree that Jordan is the best all time and defense means nothing now. My son would show me clips of I think Luca Doncic(?) on defense and the player just walked by him to the basket.
From the little basketball I do watch, I agree there is not much defense anymore.
Bob

[BobbyStrawberry]

It's been a gradual thing over the last 10-12 years so. A few causes IMO:

-They have changed the rules about playing defense to the point that players almost have to defend without making contact.

-So many players are now allowed to carry the ball egregiously, making it harder to defend. Watch some Luka Doncic or Tyrese Halliburton highlights and you will see—they regularly will palm the ball and then lunge toward the basket in a way that's completely illegal and is very hard to counter.

-The way traveling is called (not called) - the footwork of the "Harden stepback" (dribble and then take three steps) has become the standard move for many players all around the court, allowing players to dance around defenders without dribbling. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is the master of this type of move currently.

-The rise of analytics and the shift of the game toward a 3-pt shootout. There is so much less contact when the game revolves around players standing around the 3-pt line. And if the defender even grazes the finger of the shooter or enters their "landing space" it's three free throws.

I miss the days of Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan and more defense. The NBA game has become sort of silly lately.

[Brent G.]

As a Pacers fan, I wonder what Reggie Miller would've done in today's NBA, chucking 10+ 3s a game ... but I LOVED the blood-and-guts era of the '80s and '90s. The Pacers/Knicks wars of the '90s were some of the best theater -- total wrestling match in the paint.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

As a Pacers fan, I wonder what Reggie Miller would've done in today's NBA, chucking 10+ 3s a game ... but I LOVED the blood-and-guts era of the '80s and '90s. The Pacers/Knicks wars of the '90s were some of the best theater -- total wrestling match in the paint.

I missed this post. You should be called for a personal foul, unnecessary roughness, for bringing up Reggie Miller in any thread that involves the Knicks. That's just mean, man.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by bk400

I missed this post. You should be called for a personal foul, unnecessary roughness, for bringing up Reggie Miller in any thread that involves the Knicks. That's just mean, man.

I think they split things about 50/50, but I give the Knicks the advantage by ending the Pacers' best shot at a title in '99 ... even if it came on a phantom foul on LJ

I really hated the Knicks back then, but now I just appreciate the great entertainment those villains provided from '93-'00. Mason/Oakley vs. the Davis boys was just pure WAR.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

It's been a gradual thing over the last 10-12 years so. A few causes IMO:

-They have changed the rules about playing defense to the point that players almost have to defend without making contact.

-So many players are now allowed to carry the ball egregiously, making it harder to defend. Watch some Luka Doncic or Tyrese Halliburton highlights and you will see—they regularly will palm the ball and then lunge toward the basket in a way that's completely illegal and is very hard to counter.

-The way traveling is called (not called) - the footwork of the "Harden stepback" (dribble and then take three steps) has become the standard move for many players all around the court, allowing players to dance around defenders without dribbling. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is the master of this type of move currently.

-The rise of analytics and the shift of the game toward a 3-pt shootout. There is so much less contact when the game revolves around players standing around the 3-pt line. And if the defender even grazes the finger of the shooter or enters their "landing space" it's three free throws.

I miss the days of Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan and more defense. The NBA game has become sort of silly lately.

I think the lack of calls of traveling and carrying the ball have been around longer than the last 10-12 years. What has changed more is the calls for minor contact, at least until the playoffs start. Then, it seems like the calls revert back to the 80s and 90s when they seemed to follow the "No blood, no foul" policy.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think the lack of calls of traveling and carrying the ball have been around longer than the last 10-12 years. What has changed more is the calls for minor contact, at least until the playoffs start. Then, it seems like the calls revert back to the 80s and 90s when they seemed to follow the "No blood, no foul" policy.

You're right, that aspect has been evolving for longer...I think it has gotten worse in recent years though.

I agree that playoffs they let them play a bit more. Also, international basketball is less silly than the NBA...they actually call travels and allow more defense. Olympics, World Cup, FIBA is some of my favorite stuff to watch.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

You're right, that aspect has been evolving for longer...I think it has gotten worse in recent years though.

I agree! The NBA has been infamous for the amount of travelling with which players get away for decades but it's gotten even worse.

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Also, international basketball is less silly than the NBA...they actually call travels and allow more defense. Olympics, World Cup, FIBA is some of my favorite stuff to watch.

Oh, absolutely!

Where I disagree with many of you is that I believe that Wilt Chamberlain is still the greatest of all time. Consider. The NBA changed the rules to make it more difficult for him to dominate (plus of course there was much more defence back in the 1960's). But the NBA changed the rules to make it easier for Michael Jordan to dominate simply because the NBA wanted to encourage spectacle as opposed to defence.

[bk400]

Here's a couple of cards for the thread. The man, the myth, the legend: The Oak. In the autographed card, he's winning a rebound against Joe Smith of the Warriors in a manner that would earn him a Flagrant 2 in today's game probably.

As an aside, I know politics aren't allowed, but if don't support Charles Oakley in his beef with James Dolan, you're not a real Knicks fan.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

...The rise of analytics and the shift of the game toward a 3-pt shootout. There is so much less contact when the game revolves around players standing around the 3-pt line. And if the defender even grazes the finger of the shooter or enters their "landing space" it's three free throws.

I miss the days of Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan and more defense. The NBA game has become sort of silly lately.

It has been several years since the last time I watched a basketball game. James Harden was playing and he repeatedly did something I found quite irritating.

Harden would receive a pass and shoot a 3-pointer. When he did, his legs would "kick" out in front of him. If he happened to kick the defender, the ref would call a foul...on the defender.

So, wait. You can kick someone and they get hit with a foul? What kind of horse$#!t is this?

(cue the old-person-reminiscing music)

Back in my day, if you purposefully kicked a defender, you wouldn't get free throws. You'd get dropped. As in, the other team's biggest player would take a swing at you (with ill intent) and likely connect.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Eric72

It has been several years since the last time I watched a basketball game. James Harden was playing and he repeatedly did something I found quite irritating.

Harden would receive a pass and shoot a 3-pointer. When he did, his legs would "kick" out in front of him. If he happened to kick the defender, the ref would call a foul...on the defender.

So, wait. You can kick someone and they get hit with a foul? What kind of horse$#!t is this?

(cue the old-person-reminiscing music)

Back in my day, if you purposefully kicked a defender, you wouldn't get free throws. You'd get dropped. As in, the other team's biggest player would take a swing at you (with ill intent) and likely connect.

That's now something that can be called as an offensive foul if it's ruled to not be part of the natural shooting motion. I think it was changed to be like that a few years ago.

[frankbmd]

Just look at the shot and look at the next post

[frankbmd]

Just look at the shot charts. The percentage of attempts between the "paint" and the "3 point line" is usually 10% or less.

Grade school coaches must be telling the boys,

"Now boys I want you all to spread out behind the line. If you get the ball, shoot. If you get a rebound, look for an open teammate behind the line so he can shoot. The fans will be yelling "DEE-FENCE", so you don't have to worry about it."

Yes, the game has changed and become boring to watch. Wouldn't it be interesting to see today's players on a court without the three point line. They wouldn't know where to stand or when to shoot. I would be more interested in seeing the "Final 3" than the "Final 4"