HELP: Player identification

[Bucs9]

I would appreciate help to identify the players in the attached c. 1906 snapshot (other than Honus Wagner). It is a challenge.
Thanks

[Cliff Bowman]

First-Fred Clarke? Second-Bob Ganley? Third ? Fourth in black-Joe Nealon? Fifth-Claude Ritchey? Sixth-Deacon Phillippe?

[Scott Garner]

Lou,
I believe that the 2nd player from the left is, in fact, no-hit pitcher Deacon Phillipe.

[Bucs9]

Do you mean 2nd from right facing the picture?

[Bucs9]

Cliff,
Doesn't look like Clarke to me.

[Bucs9]

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

I would appreciate help to identify the players in the attached c. 1906 snapshot (other than Honus Wagner). It is a challenge.
Thanks

I believe the image is from 1907 and features Ed Abbaticchio, Deacon Phillippe, Pat Flaherty, Joe Nealon, Claude Ritchey, maybe Alan Storke, and Honus Wagner.

Edited to add: Some of these IDs must be wrong; see posts 26 and 27.

[Bucs9]

Is that from your observation or have you seen the image before with the players identified as such?

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

Is that from your observation or have you seen the image before with the players identified as such?

I have previously seen this image, but not with identifications. The IDs are my own (sorry I hadn't made that clear). I'm pretty certain about most of them, including Abbaticchio. He was only with the Pirates 1907-1909. Since he is wearing a different uniform in the photo, it seems likely that this is from spring training of 1907, when the players would have been wearing their old uniforms from 1906.

Edited to add: I wrote this before being reminded that Abbaticchio was received in a trade for Ritchey, Flaherty, and Clarence Beaumont. Duh!

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by RUKen

I believe the image is from 1907 and features Ed Abbaticchio, Deacon Phillippe, Pat Flaherty, Joe Nealon, Claude Ritchey, maybe Alan Storke, and Honus Wagner.

That combination isn't possible and it cannot be 1907 because of a trade that happened December 11 1906: the Pirates traded Claude Ritchey, Patsy Flaherty, and Ginger Beaumont to the Boston Nationals for Ed Abbaticchio. I don't think there is any disputing the fifth player in the middle is Claude Ritchey.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

That combination isn't possible and it cannot be 1907 because of a trade that happened December 11 1906: the Pirates traded Claude Ritchey, Patsy Flaherty, and Ginger Beaumont to the Boston Nationals for Ed Abbaticchio. I don't think there is any disputing the fifth player in the middle is Claude Ritchey.

AARGH! I agree. I withdraw my proposed date. It's not Abbaticchio on the left (maybe Leever as you proposed, or possibly Tommy Sheehan), but I still feel confident that Flaherty is in the picture. Storke debuted late in the 1906 season, so he is probably not the man next to Wagner.

[RUKen]

In an attempt to redeem myself for mistakenly claiming Ed Abbaticchio to be in the picture, I am attaching below a couple of images of Pat Flaherty to support my identification of him in the group photo.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by RUKen

In an attempt to redeem myself for mistakenly claiming Ed Abbaticchio to be in the picture, I am attaching below a couple of images of Pat Flaherty to support my identification of him in the group photo.

I think you're right on it being Flaherty and not Gibson. Flaherty didn't play for the Pirates in 1906 but was in their organization all year.

[RUKen]

I've been looking through the Pittsburgh newspapers to see who was in spring training with them in 1906. Players who trained with them but did not appear in a regular-season game included Frank Oberlin, Harry Newmyer, and W.B. "Doc" Moskiman. I believe that Moskiman is a good match for the player second from right in the group photo.

[JollyElm]

Threads like this are beyond frustrating. Nothing personal against anyone, but it seems if presented pictures of themselves, a lot of members would identify them as someone else.

Anyway, I lightened the shadows and upped the contrast a bit, so here's a clearer version of the OP's pic...

Wagnerpiclightened2.jpg

One thing is clear, the guy on the left has a Ricardo Montalbán thing going on.

[Bucs9]

It is really interesting and fun to hear all of your responses. It prompted me to continue researching for their identities. At the same time . This type of exercise can be really frustrating. Right?

[sporteq]

Here ya go

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by sporteq

Here ya go

Ummm, the photo is not from 1901, and every ID is wrong except for Ritchey and Wagner. (To start, Jimmy Williams jumped to the Baltimore Orioles before he began spring training in 1901, Bones Ely was released by the Pirates in late July of that year, and Ed Doheny signed with the Pirates after Ely's release. Also, Tommy Leach was five inches shorter than Honus Wagner.) That caption was written by someone within the last few decades. What we need is a contemporary newspaper image with IDs, but I've checked newspapers.com and haven't found this image.

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by RUKen

Ummm, the photo is not from 1901, and every ID is wrong except for Ritchey and Wagner. (To start, Jimmy Williams jumped to the Baltimore Orioles before he began spring training in 1901, Bones Ely was released by the Pirates in late July of that year, and Ed Doheny signed with the Pirates after Ely's release. Also, Tommy Leach was five inches shorter than Honus Wagner.) That caption was written by someone within the last few decades. What we need is a contemporary newspaper image with IDs, but I've checked newspapers.com and haven't found this image.

I got it from here.. they did article on Wagner called, “ Honus Wagner’s Rookie Year, 1895”

[JollyElm]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the Ricardo Montalbán-esque guy at the far left not only seems to be older than the other guys, but he's also wearing a different hat and his bizarre turtleneck doesn't really jibe either. Perhaps he's from a different team?

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the Ricardo Montalbán-esque guy at the far left not only seems to be older than the other guys, but he's also wearing a different hat and his bizarre turtleneck doesn't really jibe either. Perhaps he's from a different team?

This is almost certainly a spring training photo, because 1) they are all wearing coats or sweaters and 2) Pat Flaherty (3rd from the left) trained with the Pirates that spring but spent the entire season with Columbus in the American Association. In the first decade of the twentieth century, teams did not provide players with their uniforms for the upcoming season until shortly before the season began. The players wore their uniforms from the previous season while training. That was why I couldn't accept Sam Leever as #1, and finally settled on Vic Willis as my choice (he had been traded to the Pirates during that off-season) after finding an image of him looking to the right and smiling. (Sometimes players who had been in the minor leagues showed up without a uniform, and were lent one to wear during the spring. That is why I think my choice of Moskiman for #6 is plausible.)

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by RUKen

This is almost certainly a spring training photo. In the first decade of the twentieth century, teams did not provide players with their uniforms for the upcoming season until shortly before the season began. The players wore their uniforms from the previous season while training.

Ahh, that would explain why Joe Nealon (in black) doesn't have a uniform either, 1906 was his first season in the big leagues.

[Bucs9]

Thank you all so much for your efforts! So, what is the consensus?
Lou

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

Thank you all so much for your efforts! So, what is the consensus?
Lou

I don't think there's a consensus, but my final IDs are:

Willis / Ganley / Flaherty / Nealon / Ritchey / Moskiman / Wagner

The most lingering disagreements seem to be #1 and #6 (numbered from the left). I've included photos in my earlier messages to support my picks of Willis and Moskiman.