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  #1  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:45 PM
lharri3600 lharri3600 is offline
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Default Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud

To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.

Last edited by Leon; 08-10-2017 at 11:42 AM. Reason: to make title more informative
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:47 PM
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Larry my old friend, how are you? I'm not sure what you meant by this line "Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."
Hope all is well, you were the first guy I ever bought a card from on Net54!
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:49 PM
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Guess I need to go listen to the music play.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:50 PM
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Topps T206 buybacks?
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
Topps T206 buybacks?
..
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:10 PM
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"Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."

I guess this should read, some of those topps buy backs that sold were put in holders by myself.
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:10 PM
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I believe Larry is saying he had T206 cards, cleaned them up, then placed them in
Topps Buyback holders and sold them as such.

Last edited by Stonepony; 08-08-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:11 PM
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Where would unused Buyback holders come from?
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 View Post
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.
Is this written in sanskrit? I have no idea what any of it means, except that the OP is apologizing for something, right??
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:35 PM
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I didn't realize that they carried a premium. I have cut all of mine out to fit in binders.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:38 PM
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Everyone makes mistakes. Assuming you are coming forward on your own accord and assuming restitution is made I say forgive and forget.
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
Everyone makes mistakes. Assuming you are coming forward on your own accord and assuming restitution is made I say forgive and forget.
+1
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:46 PM
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If he has done something wrong and wants to make amends maybe rather than others interpreting or assuming facts, he should take a moment to clarify his initial post and spill all the beans in detail?
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:50 PM
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Don't agree with forgive and forget, no offense of course.

Everyone does make mistakes, of course, but I think Leon needs to weigh in here and the bright light of complete honesty and a clear post by the OP needs to happen.

From what I can tell, the OP deliberately forged cards and sold them to unsuspecting buyers, perhaps even on this site. And is now asking for forgiveness, but I have no idea whether he was caught or is doing this of his own volition.

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  #15  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:51 PM
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I'm down with forgive, but I'm part elephant when it comes to the forgetting thing.
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  #16  
Old 08-08-2017, 07:18 PM
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I forgive him yet still no Effin idea what this is about.
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2017, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Lance Boil View Post
Don't agree with forgive and forget, no offense of course.

Everyone does make mistakes, of course, but I think Leon needs to weigh in here and the bright light of complete honesty and a clear post by the OP needs to happen.

From what I can tell, the OP deliberately forged cards and sold them to unsuspecting buyers, perhaps even on this site. And is now asking for forgiveness, but I have no idea whether he was caught or is doing this of his own volition.

Tony
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If guilt got to him, then that's one thing, but if he was caught and was told to fess up and apologize, then that's another thing.
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:19 PM
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I have a hard time viewing something done multiple times purposely as a mistake.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-illini View Post
I have a hard time viewing something done multiple times purposely as a mistake.
If this is about Topps T206 Buybacks, then it's not the first time.

I started a thread back in 2009 about this.
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:30 PM
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I have a lot of info but let's see what comes out.
LL
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  #21  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 View Post
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
Who are the hobbit members?
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:35 PM
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Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.
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Last edited by jb217676; 08-08-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 View Post
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.
For starters apologize for not making it clear and for poor grammar.
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantz View Post
If this is about Topps T206 Buybacks, then it's not the first time.

I started a thread back in 2009 about this.
Here is a link to that thread. Blames it on his brother in that one. http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=117099
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  #25  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:44 PM
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Didn't this happen a few years ago?

Edited to add: Thanks for the link, Ben. Wow, time flies...

Last edited by asoriano; 08-08-2017 at 08:45 PM.
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  #26  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:44 PM
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Thank you for posting the link Ben.
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  #27  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 View Post
Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.
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Last edited by Leon; 08-08-2017 at 08:48 PM. Reason: edited to add time frame
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  #28  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible.
After reading his first post I think he may need to sober up a bit first
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 View Post
Where would unused Buyback holders come from?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Topps-T...QAAOSwr6RZh858
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2017, 08:52 PM
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Am I safe in assuming it hast to do with these?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...yback&_sacat=0
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  #31  
Old 08-08-2017, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.
Thanks Leon, didn't know how far this went back. How do you get the jersey card out of the T206 Buyback holder without damaging it. I just don't get it.
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  #32  
Old 08-09-2017, 02:48 AM
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Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
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Guess I need to go listen to the music play.
Nice Franklin's Tower reference....
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:45 AM
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Well at least he beat cancer...
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  #35  
Old 08-09-2017, 04:42 AM
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Why the apology 8+ years later? Did something happen recently, like an investigation? Just wondering what caused this level of regret all of a sudden.
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  #36  
Old 08-09-2017, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Here is a link to that thread. Blames it on his brother in that one. http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=117099
Larry's first reply from that thread 10/25/09:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600
First allow me to thank the person who found this on ebay. I've dealt with some of you and i have talked to some in the past. I'm in agreement with him this is dead wrong. However i need to say that my brother who handles the ebay side of our business has done this thing not i. I have the utmost amountof respect for the hobby and would never attempt to pull a stunt like this. I mean i already own 2 t206 sets at this time. Money is not an object for me not this point in my life. Why? Cancer has said so!! Thats my reason for selling my cards off. I have told him to take down the ones he put in holders. Infact i'm going to check our purchase records and see which ones i bought from bertfro(his ebay handle) a few years ago. If i see any one not purchased from bert or any other person, they will be taken off. Again those here on 54 that know me know i am a man on strong conviction and a man of integerity.
I guess that's all i can say.
Larry
Larry's second (and last) reply from that thread 10/25/09:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600
As stated before my brother handles the ebay part of our card business. This not an excuse. You can believe me you don't have to, that's your choice. I'm a very sick man and at this juncture in my life what others think does not bother me. All listings will be removed that are from topps.
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  #37  
Old 08-09-2017, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe View Post
Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...
i tend to agree with this sentiment...
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  #38  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:26 AM
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Collectors noticed this problem recently on Ebay this year.. I don't think they had any idea the OP had been called out on it before in 2009. Makes you go hmmmmmmm.
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  #39  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe View Post
Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...
This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...
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  #40  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:48 AM
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That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.
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  #41  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:56 AM
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Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.
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  #42  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7nohitter View Post
That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.
I thought 1 day was long enough but regardless of what anyone does, anytime, someone will disagree with it. It really doesn't matter so I just do what I think is best. And I should add that I was also getting advice on some things so not everything can or should be done immediately.
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Last edited by Leon; 08-09-2017 at 07:00 AM.
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  #43  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...
So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).
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  #44  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).
That is my take and again, he got caught by another board member who sent me a PM. That PM prompted and started this.....
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  #45  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:41 AM
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T206Collector T206Collector is offline
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Here's an article about how this could really get out of hand...

http://www.andybroome.com/?p=38

Here's a fake Cobb in one...

https://twitter.com/broomewithaview/...89713622552577

And a thread about removing the cards from the holders...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87666
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Last edited by T206Collector; 08-09-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:56 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
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This hobby, whether it be the card side, autographs or memorabilia is a pretty tight nit community that relies on the honesty of it's core members. Oh sure, there's plenty of fraud all over, but the core of the hobby always tries to keep things honest and on the up-and-up, so when a member of this board since 2009 does something like this (again and again it appears) then it's inexcusable. Just my .02
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:02 AM
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iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.

Exactly, this is ridiculous putting your reputation on the line for pennies. Also, I have to rescind my earlier forgive and forget sentiment given he did not come clean of his own volition it was only after being called out.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:02 AM
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Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
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Last edited by jb217676; 08-09-2017 at 09:02 AM.
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  #49  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:07 AM
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bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 View Post
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
Whats there to say??? What is the only reason people do these sort of things?? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He was buying raw T206 commons on the cheap and making them look like Topps "Buy Backs" to increase their value. It's all about the $$$.

Last edited by bobbyw8469; 08-09-2017 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 View Post
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
Greed. There is your answer.

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