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-   -   Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243385)

lharri3600 08-08-2017 05:45 PM
Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud
 
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.

jb217676 08-08-2017 05:47 PM
Larry my old friend, how are you? I'm not sure what you meant by this line "Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."
Hope all is well, you were the first guy I ever bought a card from on Net54!
Jeff

glynparson 08-08-2017 05:49 PM
I'm confused
 
Guess I need to go listen to the music play.

tiger8mush 08-08-2017 05:50 PM
Topps T206 buybacks?

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2017 06:02 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush (Post 1688684)
Topps T206 buybacks?
..

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2017 06:10 PM
"Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."

I guess this should read, some of those topps buy backs that sold were put in holders by myself.

Stonepony 08-08-2017 06:10 PM
I believe Larry is saying he had T206 cards, cleaned them up, then placed them in
Topps Buyback holders and sold them as such.

jb217676 08-08-2017 06:11 PM
Where would unused Buyback holders come from?

JollyElm 08-08-2017 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 (Post 1688679)
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.
Is this written in sanskrit? I have no idea what any of it means, except that the OP is apologizing for something, right??

Tao_Moko 08-08-2017 06:35 PM
I didn't realize that they carried a premium. I have cut all of mine out to fit in binders.

iwantitiwinit 08-08-2017 06:38 PM
Everyone makes mistakes. Assuming you are coming forward on your own accord and assuming restitution is made I say forgive and forget.

vintagetoppsguy 08-08-2017 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit (Post 1688708)
Everyone makes mistakes. Assuming you are coming forward on your own accord and assuming restitution is made I say forgive and forget.
+1

botn 08-08-2017 06:46 PM
If he has done something wrong and wants to make amends maybe rather than others interpreting or assuming facts, he should take a moment to clarify his initial post and spill all the beans in detail?

Corporal Lance Boil 08-08-2017 06:50 PM
Um
 
Don't agree with forgive and forget, no offense of course.

Everyone does make mistakes, of course, but I think Leon needs to weigh in here and the bright light of complete honesty and a clear post by the OP needs to happen.

From what I can tell, the OP deliberately forged cards and sold them to unsuspecting buyers, perhaps even on this site. And is now asking for forgiveness, but I have no idea whether he was caught or is doing this of his own volition.

Tony

Aquarian Sports Cards 08-08-2017 06:51 PM
I'm down with forgive, but I'm part elephant when it comes to the forgetting thing.

Snapolit1 08-08-2017 07:18 PM
I forgive him yet still no Effin idea what this is about.

irv 08-08-2017 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Lance Boil (Post 1688718)
Don't agree with forgive and forget, no offense of course.

Everyone does make mistakes, of course, but I think Leon needs to weigh in here and the bright light of complete honesty and a clear post by the OP needs to happen.

From what I can tell, the OP deliberately forged cards and sold them to unsuspecting buyers, perhaps even on this site. And is now asking for forgiveness, but I have no idea whether he was caught or is doing this of his own volition.

Tony
This^

If guilt got to him, then that's one thing, but if he was caught and was told to fess up and apologize, then that's another thing.

the-illini 08-08-2017 08:19 PM
I have a hard time viewing something done multiple times purposely as a mistake.

Jantz 08-08-2017 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the-illini (Post 1688760)
I have a hard time viewing something done multiple times purposely as a mistake.
If this is about Topps T206 Buybacks, then it's not the first time.

I started a thread back in 2009 about this.

Leon 08-08-2017 08:30 PM
I have a lot of info but let's see what comes out.
LL

ruth-gehrig 08-08-2017 08:32 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 (Post 1688679)
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
Who are the hobbit members? ;)

jb217676 08-08-2017 08:35 PM
Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.

Shoeless Moe 08-08-2017 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600 (Post 1688679)
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness.
For starters apologize for not making it clear and for poor grammar.

bnorth 08-08-2017 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantz (Post 1688765)
If this is about Topps T206 Buybacks, then it's not the first time.

I started a thread back in 2009 about this.
Here is a link to that thread. Blames it on his brother in that one. http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=117099

asoriano 08-08-2017 08:44 PM
Didn't this happen a few years ago? :confused:

Edited to add: Thanks for the link, Ben. Wow, time flies...

Jantz 08-08-2017 08:44 PM
Thank you for posting the link Ben.

Leon 08-08-2017 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 (Post 1688769)
Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.

rdixon1208 08-08-2017 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1688774)
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible.
After reading his first post I think he may need to sober up a bit first

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2017 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 (Post 1688702)
Where would unused Buyback holders come from?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Topps-T...QAAOSwr6RZh858

bn2cardz 08-08-2017 08:52 PM
Am I safe in assuming it hast to do with these?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...yback&_sacat=0

jb217676 08-08-2017 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1688774)
I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.
Thanks Leon, didn't know how far this went back. How do you get the jersey card out of the T206 Buyback holder without damaging it. I just don't get it.

Tabe 08-09-2017 02:48 AM
Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...

Bocabirdman 08-09-2017 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glynparson (Post 1688683)
Guess I need to go listen to the music play.
Nice Franklin's Tower reference....

Aquarian Sports Cards 08-09-2017 03:45 AM
Well at least he beat cancer...

jb217676 08-09-2017 04:42 AM
Why the apology 8+ years later? Did something happen recently, like an investigation? Just wondering what caused this level of regret all of a sudden.

tiger8mush 08-09-2017 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1688771)
Here is a link to that thread. Blames it on his brother in that one. http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=117099
Larry's first reply from that thread 10/25/09:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600
First allow me to thank the person who found this on ebay. I've dealt with some of you and i have talked to some in the past. I'm in agreement with him this is dead wrong. However i need to say that my brother who handles the ebay side of our business has done this thing not i. I have the utmost amountof respect for the hobby and would never attempt to pull a stunt like this. I mean i already own 2 t206 sets at this time. Money is not an object for me not this point in my life. Why? Cancer has said so!! Thats my reason for selling my cards off. I have told him to take down the ones he put in holders. Infact i'm going to check our purchase records and see which ones i bought from bertfro(his ebay handle) a few years ago. If i see any one not purchased from bert or any other person, they will be taken off. Again those here on 54 that know me know i am a man on strong conviction and a man of integerity.
I guess that's all i can say.
Larry
Larry's second (and last) reply from that thread 10/25/09:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lharri3600
As stated before my brother handles the ebay part of our card business. This not an excuse. You can believe me you don't have to, that's your choice. I'm a very sick man and at this juncture in my life what others think does not bother me. All listings will be removed that are from topps.

ullmandds 08-09-2017 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe (Post 1688817)
Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...
i tend to agree with this sentiment...

2dueces 08-09-2017 06:26 AM
Collectors noticed this problem recently on Ebay this year.. I don't think they had any idea the OP had been called out on it before in 2009. Makes you go hmmmmmmm.

Leon 08-09-2017 06:45 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe (Post 1688817)
Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...
This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...

7nohitter 08-09-2017 06:48 AM
That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.

Peter_Spaeth 08-09-2017 06:56 AM
Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.

Leon 08-09-2017 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7nohitter (Post 1688854)
That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.
I thought 1 day was long enough but regardless of what anyone does, anytime, someone will disagree with it. It really doesn't matter so I just do what I think is best. And I should add that I was also getting advice on some things so not everything can or should be done immediately.

KMayUSA6060 08-09-2017 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1688852)
This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...
So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).

Leon 08-09-2017 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 (Post 1688859)
So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).
That is my take and again, he got caught by another board member who sent me a PM. That PM prompted and started this.....

T206Collector 08-09-2017 08:41 AM
Here's an article about how this could really get out of hand...

http://www.andybroome.com/?p=38

Here's a fake Cobb in one...

https://twitter.com/broomewithaview/...89713622552577

And a thread about removing the cards from the holders...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87666

mr2686 08-09-2017 08:56 AM
This hobby, whether it be the card side, autographs or memorabilia is a pretty tight nit community that relies on the honesty of it's core members. Oh sure, there's plenty of fraud all over, but the core of the hobby always tries to keep things honest and on the up-and-up, so when a member of this board since 2009 does something like this (again and again it appears) then it's inexcusable. Just my .02

iwantitiwinit 08-09-2017 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1688857)
Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.

Exactly, this is ridiculous putting your reputation on the line for pennies. Also, I have to rescind my earlier forgive and forget sentiment given he did not come clean of his own volition it was only after being called out.

jb217676 08-09-2017 09:02 AM
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.

bobbyw8469 08-09-2017 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 (Post 1688898)
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
Whats there to say??? What is the only reason people do these sort of things?? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He was buying raw T206 commons on the cheap and making them look like Topps "Buy Backs" to increase their value. It's all about the $$$.

Leon 08-09-2017 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb217676 (Post 1688898)
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
Greed. There is your answer.

.


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