WTB 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle

[Peter_Spaeth]

4.5/5 ideal, reasonable centering, strong color and registration, no print lines/roller marks. Will pay strong. Sell direct and save fees!! Thank you for looking.

[pawpawdiv9]

Found ya a 5 that may work?
Sending PM

[Peter_Spaeth]

A hopeful bump.

[Peter_Spaeth]

[Peter_Spaeth]

Holiday bump.

[Peter_Spaeth]

bump

[RGold]

I got a 52 Bowman. But it's not Mantle. Now that I'm looking at it, the centering is sorta shitty. Nevermind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

None out of three ain't bad.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

None out of three ain't bad.

C'mon Peter, '51 Bowman Mantle is fairly common. You just need to come off your wallet to get a nice one . Good luck.......(I sold a 6 many years ago, wish I would have kept it now, of course.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Still looking.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Once more, with feeling.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Maybe put down the price range you are willing to pay as some people don't have the card but may know someone that does and if can convey a price that could allow them to pry it out of their collection...nothing to lose and seems like getting nowhere thus far...just a thought

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jake thanks, but I cannot convey a price without seeing the card, on this issue in particular 4s and 5s are all over the place in terms of centering, color, print lines or not, registration, etc. I said I would pay "strong" and by that I mean, for the right card, high VCP (possibly excluding PWCC).

[bobbyw8469]

(possibly excluding pwcc)

lol!

[Peter_Spaeth]

still looking

[pokerplyr80]

There's a dead centered BVG 3.5 on ebay right now

[Neal]

Huggins and Scott has a decent one ....

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Neal

Huggins and Scott has a decent one ....

That one is pretty nice. I might have to upgrade mine if you don't want it peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

There's a dead centered BVG 3.5 on ebay right now

BVG?? Do not pass go, do not collect $200, not my cup of tea.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That one is pretty nice. I might have to upgrade mine if you don't want it peter.

All yours my friend. Slightly out of register, look at the cap.

[CharleyBrown]

You've probably seen them already, but a few nice ones in the upcoming Memory Lane auction!! Hope you get one.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All yours my friend. Slightly out of register, look at the cap.

I hadn't looked that closely but I see what you mean.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown

You've probably seen them already, but a few nice ones in the upcoming Memory Lane auction!! Hope you get one.

that psa 4 may seems nicer than the psa 5

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

that psa 4 may seems nicer than the psa 5

That happens a lot with this issue, as things like being off register, print lines through the face, and washed out appearance don't seem to count much for the grade. So a card with MUCH better eye appeal can be a grade or even two grades lower.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

that psa 4 may seems nicer than the psa 5

I thought the same thing until I noticed the crease.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I thought the same thing until I noticed the crease.

what crease?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

what crease?

Crease, wrinkle, whatever you want to call it. Running through Mick's elbow, lower left corner of the card. You guys were talking about the PSA 4 currently on Memory Lane, right?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Crease, wrinkle, whatever you want to call it. Running through Mick's elbow, lower left corner of the card. You guys were talking about the PSA 4 currently on Memory Lane, right?

correct..i didn't notice it..card will still go for over $4000

[pokerplyr80]

I don't doubt that. If I had to guess I'd still say 5k with the buyer's premium. I just meant I wouldn't say it's nicer than the 5 with the wrinkle and wax stain, despite the awesome centering.

I would pay 4k for it right now if I could.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't doubt that. If I had to guess I'd still say 5k with the buyer's premium. I just meant I wouldn't say it's nicer than the 5 with the wrinkle and wax stain, despite the awesome centering.

I would pay 4k for it right now if I could.

I agree with you that the 5 would be better than the 4 based on those issues..

[MattyC]

I'd pay more for and prefer the 4 over the 5-- diff'rent strokes, as they say.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'd pay more for and prefer the 4 over the 5-- diff'rent strokes, as they say.

easy to say you will do that or others that say that kind of thing..but lets see you win a 4 like that for more than the 5 goes for in any type of auction for 4000 dollar plus cards ..talk is cheap...easy to say..ill believe it when I see it...though im not doubting you MattyC I know you have nice centered cards..i sort of talking in general to all the buy the card not the holder guys...I think resale value plays a bigger role than people say...but if someone wins this 51 mantle for a higher price (thus they actually paid and not 'will pay ) than the psa 5 by all means that will back up what they say..

[MattyC]

For what it's worth, the, "Buy the card, not the holder," mantra does serve one very well on resale as well. Time and again I paid premiums for lower grade cards with great eye appeal that some thought were crazy at the time, only to do very well on those occasions when I sold some of those very pieces to go after a pricier card. There are many ways to be happy as both a collector and seller, for us all

I'd add that if one intends to hold a card for a long time, or as I've heard some say a long "investment horizon," one can feel free to pay more for a 4 that looks better to their own personal eye than a 5 which would have cost them less, since they can always hold their preferred 4 long enough and enjoy it during that time. Bottom line, I think so much of collectors' discussions hinges on where the discussion participants each fall on the collector versus investor spectrum.

That said, were I in the market for that 4, I would set my bid, and if it turned out to be higher than the 5 sold for, I would not care at all-- I took home the one I wanted at the price I wanted to pay, is all that matters. I have done it before (with many cards in my collection, and some well north of the price mark you referenced) and— if I love a card— I will definitely do it again, When I love a card, there really is no helping me, LOL!

[pokerplyr80]

Were it not for that crease I think the 4 in this case would go for more than the 5. Centering and Eye appeal is at a premium and people are willing to pay for it.

Here's a good example from a couple of auctions I watched last week:

SGC 3 52 Mantle off center sold for about 13.5k with buyer's premium

http://www.gregbussineau.com/LotDeta...entoryid=12793

SGC 1.5 52 Mantle Centered 10.3k

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

I'm sure we'd all agree there's normally at lot more than a 3k difference in the value of this card in a 1.5 vs a 3. I actually thought the SGC 3 would sell for less than it did.

[MattyC]

Just look at the-- so far-- enormous premium being paid for the Goldin Auctions PSA 8 1952 Topps Mantle versus the Heritage example. 300k versus 240k. The Goldin 8 destroys the Heritage 8, for my own money. But another may see differently. Will be interesting to see if that disparity holds up at Hammer Time.

[Iron Horse]

i would agree that the 4 is much more pleasing then the 5.
Yes, i buy the card not the holder/grade

Did you decide yet Peter

[3-2-count]

Case and point. I paid way up for this one for the card alone, not for what the printed number states on the flip. In my opinion this card holds it's own against other examples up to a 6 when taking into consideration centering, registration, stray print lines, color and back staining which it has none of. I'm thinking long term I did okay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That card deserves a new home.

[CW]

Fantastic Mick, Tony!

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I actually thought the SGC 3 would sell for less than it did.

I think it did. Looking at the auction page it appears the $11,400 includes the BP. Interesting comparison between the two cards, though.

Although I doubt any bidders were fooled, I thought this line was a bit misleading in the description:

"...the offered example is highlighted by a crystal-clear portrait of "The Mick" that is boldly colored and unblemished."

Unblemished?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by CW

I think it did. Looking at the auction page it appears the $11,400 includes the BP. Interesting comparison between the two cards, though.

Although I doubt any bidders were fooled, I thought this line was a bit misleading in the description:

"...the offered example is highlighted by a crystal-clear portrait of "The Mick" that is boldly colored and unblemished."

Unblemished?

You're right, don't know how I missed that. I guess that proves the point even more about the premium for centering and eye appeal. The seller of a 1.5 on ebay netted more than the seller of a 3 on that auction site.

And yes I'd hardly call that card unblemished. Don't get me wrong any 52 mantle is an awesome card and congrats to the collector who won it, especially if it's another net54 member. I suppose no one will ever list a card as "rough for the grade, use this one to pad your registry." I would appreciate the honesty though and might even bid a little more if they did.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Case and point. I paid way up for this one for the card alone, not for what the printed number states on the flip. In my opinion this card holds it's own against other examples up to a 6 when taking into consideration centering, registration, stray print lines, color and back staining which it has none of. I'm thinking long term I did okay.

Holy Crap, Tony! That card is gorgeous. PINPOINT focus. Deep color. Centering. Whatever an average "5" sells for today, I'd pay more right now for that 4.5. Great eye, brother. Congrats. I'd wager that card would outsell a mediocre 5 all day, every day.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Case and point. I paid way up for this one for the card alone, not for what the printed number states on the flip. In my opinion this card holds it's own against other examples up to a 6 when taking into consideration centering, registration, stray print lines, color and back staining which it has none of. I'm thinking long term I did okay.

that's a real nice sgc mantle....I have no doubt that will go for more than higher graded copies.....I talking about bidding at the same auction though when people are buying the card not the grade. like the memory lane auction with the 51 mantel..would of be interesting if no crease on the psa 4. .lots of people say they like a card more..but I think we all agree its one thing to say it and another thing to pay the price.........sort of like b/s/t...people comment how much they like someones card for sale, but don't pull the trigger...easy to say...but means a lot more to pay the price then just to say it.....

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

that's a real nice sgc mantle....I have no doubt that will go for more than higher graded copies.....I talking about bidding at the same auction though when people are buying the card not the grade. like the memory lane auction with the 51 mantel..would of be interesting if no crease on the psa 4. .lots of people say they like a card more..but I think we all agree its one thing to say it and another thing to pay the price.........sort of like b/s/t...people comment how much they like someones card for sale, but don't pull the trigger...easy to say...but means a lot more to pay the price then just to say it.....

Yea that would be interesting to see. I would pay more for this Mantle in an SGC 4.5 than I would for the PSA 5 in Memory Lane. If 3-2-count were to agree to it I would buy this card for what that 5 closes at.

Although they were different sites I think those to 52 Mantles I posted make the point though, as to the PSA 8s mattyc mentioned, especially if they close with a 60k gap for the same card in the same grade.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Yea that would be interesting to see. I would pay more for this Mantle in an SGC 4.5 than I would for the PSA 5 in Memory Lane. If 3-2-count were to agree to it I would buy this card for what that 5 closes at.

Although they were different sites I think those to 52 Mantles I posted make the point though, as to the PSA 8s mattyc mentioned, especially if they close with a 60k gap for the same card in the same grade.

when talking about cards with more than 50k difference.thats a little different scenario...sort of artwork at that point and eye in the beholder......heck the T206 wagner theres an issue of grading etc...can be 500k difference on opinion such as that Gretsky T206 Wagner (trimmed?) and the holder isn't really as important with that type of money.....I talking more of the regular cards in the 1k-20k range in the same auction....different auctions are everything..i want to see someone pay more for a lower grade card where the higher grade card is right in their face....we all overpay on occasion for cards..even knowing a prior auction price was much lower....its another to see it in front of your face like the memory lane auction that I first commented on....

again saying 'I will pay more' doesn't really count unless you actually pay...and what does 'pay more mean'....I can pay 2k for a 1952 mantle psa 5 versus 1k for a psa 6...so I am paying more..but I not winning the card.....its all really just talk and theory unless someone actually buys the card following their mantra...

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wish this one didn't have the print line, but at least it's off the face. Otherwise has all the characteristics I want.

[3-2-count]

Thanks Peter, Chuck, Matt & Jesse. Very much appreciated.

Peter that ones nice, but honestly if I owned it all I could concentrate on while viewing it is that darn vertical print line even though it's away from his face. It would drive me nuts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Thanks Peter, Chuck, Matt & Jesse. Very much appreciated.

Peter that ones nice, but honestly if I owned it all I could concentrate on while viewing it is that darn vertical print line even though it's away from his face. It would drive me nuts.

LOL. I hear you, but on the other hand I have seen SO many off centered, print lines through the face, washed out color, out of register, stains in the back...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. I hear you, but on the other hand I have seen SO many off centered, print lines through the face, washed out color, out of register, stains in the back...

of course the seller probably saying 'if not for the print line, its a PSA 7-8'

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

of course the seller probably saying 'if not for the print line, its a PSA 7-8'

LOL. From what I have seen the print lines don't count against the grade, nor does being out of register, on this issue. I have seen some horribly ugly 5s and 6s.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

when talking about cards with more than 50k difference.thats a little different scenario...sort of artwork at that point and eye in the beholder......heck the T206 wagner theres an issue of grading etc...can be 500k difference on opinion such as that Gretsky T206 Wagner (trimmed?) and the holder isn't really as important with that type of money.....I talking more of the regular cards in the 1k-20k range in the same auction....different auctions are everything..i want to see someone pay more for a lower grade card where the higher grade card is right in their face....we all overpay on occasion for cards..even knowing a prior auction price was much lower....its another to see it in front of your face like the memory lane auction that I first commented on....

again saying 'I will pay more' doesn't really count unless you actually pay...and what does 'pay more mean'....I can pay 2k for a 1952 mantle psa 5 versus 1k for a psa 6...so I am paying more..but I not winning the card.....its all really just talk and theory unless someone actually buys the card following their mantra...

I get what you're saying, but the odds of that happening are slim. You would need a card like this 4.5 Mantle in the same auction with a 5-6 with some flaw. Off center, print line, etc. Then I think you would see the mantra in action. I know different auctions attract different bidders, and are hard to directly compare. But for now that's all we have. That, and the people who say they're willing to buy the card and not the holder.

Take MattyC's 52 Mantle. I don't know what he paid for it, but I bet it was a lot more than PSA 5s were selling for at that time. And if he sold it today, on here or an auction, i'm sure it would sell for more than 5s and would be close to the 6 range.