Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Any Cub pennants in that auction? 🙏🏻

Speaking of the Cubbies ... just cataloged mine ... hopefully this link works. I’m thinking of putting up the second oversized one in auction

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uGvDXCNQQixkbMF69

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of the Cubbies ... just cataloged mine ... hopefully this link works. I’m thinking of putting up the second oversized one in auction

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uGvDXCNQQixkbMF69

Great bunch of pennants. Thanks for sharing. I can't remember...Are you a Cubs fan?

I love seeing what you guys have. We need more of this.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Great bunch of pennants. Thanks for sharing. I can't remember...Are you a Cubs fan?

I love seeing what you guys have. We need more of this.

Thanks Rob .. nope, Phillies all the way!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yes that must be! Was this made without tassels? My White Sox pennant from this series was not made with them. And the felt is super thick.

Yes! The Indians pennant features super thick forest green felt, and it never had tassels. Would be great if we could uncover the entire original set of these.

[thetahat]

Just saw a home movie clip of a ‘54 Indians parade, presumably before the WS. Rare shot of the “teepee” pennant ...

[bocca001]

That's a great pennant and shot from the video. Thanks for sharing.

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of the Cubbies ... just cataloged mine ... hopefully this link works. I’m thinking of putting up the second oversized one in auction

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uGvDXCNQQixkbMF69

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

[Bumpus Jones]

good stuff. your on a roll greg!

[Fballguy]

Just curious...Does anyone know what the oldest baseball pennant known to exist is? Anyone here have it?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Just curious...Does anyone know what the oldest baseball pennant known to exist is? Anyone here have it?

I think I had read that the earliest known one is a Knickerbockers Pennant. I forget all of the pertinent details, but there was a discussion about it here on net54 about 12-14 years ago.

If you are really good with the search function, you might find it. There was a pretty lengthy ongoing Pennant thread until this one displaced it. The info is probably contained somewhere within that other pennant thread (if you have the patience and desire to search for it).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Just saw a home movie clip of a ‘54 Indians parade, presumably before the WS. Rare shot of the “teepee” pennant ...

Maybe that one was made especially for the Parade, or perhaps just for the Players?

Can't think of a better reason to explain the insane scarcity. Might be the only pennant of which I'd buy a repro version (just to have one).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think I had read that the earliest known one is a Knickerbockers Pennant. I forget all of the pertinent details, but there was a discussion about it here on net54 about 12-14 years ago.

If you are really good with the search function, you might find it. There was a pretty lengthy ongoing Pennant thread until this one displaced it. The info is probably contained somewhere within that other pennant thread (if you have the patience and desire to search for it).

I think I found the thread but the pics are gone ...

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=67606

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Maybe that one was made especially for the Parade or just for the Players?

Can't think of a better reason to explain the insane scarcity. Might be the only pennant of which I'd buy a repro version (just to have one).

Yeah I’m not sure ... speaking of which I’ll have a ‘48 indians pennant to show in a few days ... they sure made a bunch of different 48s and 54s ...

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Just curious...Does anyone know what the oldest baseball pennant known to exist is? Anyone here have it?

If the question is: what is the oldest *series* of pennants ... maybe it’s these. My rudimentary research puts the creation of silk screening around 1911-13. These pennants have sewn on letters, and reinforced edges. Most unique is the leather batter graphic. I have seen four teams: Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, and Tigers. The Tigers is the best of the lot because it has a leather tiger head instead of the batter. I think Mark has it? Also I’ve seen the Cubs pennant with opposite colors as the one pictured. ... I have the Cubs and Sox, strangely the Sox is a little smaller yet still oversized. Couldn’t have been trimmed because of the way the edges were made.

Also I can think of those “B.B.C.” pennants as one of the oldest series.

[Fballguy]

Interesting read about the Knickerbockers pennant. Is this it?

Knickerbocker Pennant.jpg

[perezfan]

That's it... Boy, you guys are good!!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's it... Boy, you guys are good!!

I don't know man...I'd need some photo provenance to kick it up a little. It's not much to look at.

[perezfan]

Pretty sure the one pictured is the reproduced version.

Obviously it's more about the age, history, story, importance and rarity than the aesthetics. I'd probably clear a spot on the wall for it.

[Fballguy]

It's funny. The question was asked about the origin of the term "Pennant race" and the explanation was that the pennant was the traditional sign of a war ship and to capture a pennant would mean you were the victor. The first thing I thought of when I saw the Knickerbocker pennant was that it looked like a nautical flag.

[thetahat]

Big props to Domer and his research. The one “set” that I don’t think gets enough appreciation is the 1969 cloth set with the unique MLB trademark. Reading through his blog I see that these are ASCO. The little ASCO Mark is missing on the cloth set but in a few years to follow these were made in felt and even the awful stiff material with the mark. I’m trying to complete the cloth set, in this pic are some of them, many but not all are cloth, there’s a Brewers pennant in there, and a Trench Pilots, and yeah that’s an Oscar Gamble poster because he was super cool.

[ooo-ribay]

Oscar must be super cool.....he’s taking up a lot of pennant space!

[thetahat]

New pickup ... one of seemingly 50 variations of ‘48 and ‘54 Indians pennants. This one has the 1948 roster. Never saw this before ...

Will have some more Retro Clean updates to follow ... I’m so bored!!!

[bocca001]

That's a cool looking pennant, Greg. Must be rare if it is new to you.

[Bumpus Jones]

great find and a really cool pennant greg. congrats!

[perezfan]

Great find, Greg....

That one is super tough and a very cool/unusual pennant.

[Fballguy]

Picked these two up in the last few weeks. Priced too cheaply to pass up. They have to be at least 100 years old. Both 34" excluding tassels. Anyone have any idea who the maker would be on these? Chicago Pennant Co. was around at that time.

I've found a similar pennant (but not exact) using the same font and a circle shaped graphic, as on the Harvard pennant. The tag on that one reads: Henry Schwartz of 15 Ann St New York.

Domer...Does that name meaning anything to you?

[perezfan]

Those are fantastic, Rob...

About as early as they come, and amazing condition considering their age!

[thetahat]

Rob those are awesome! Especially the Harvard pennant .... never seen anything like it.

[Fballguy]

Thanks Mark and Greg...I had never seen this Harvard pennant before either. What was intriguing to me is the similarity of the players uniform to the uniforms worn in this 1890 team photo. Harvard's uniform seems to have changed by the time the 1900s roll around. Makes me wonder if this could be from the 19th century.

I'm sure there are people here more familiar with Harvard football history than I. Would love input if anyone has any theories on this pennant.

[ooo-ribay]

Those are great, Rob. Carlton Hendricks is a big Yale collector, I think.

[T_Hamilton]

A few quick questions

1) I want to get an Oakland A's pennant from their 4 world championships in Oakland. A quick eBay search reveals their 1972 WS Championship, 1973 (shows 1972-73) and 1989. However, I dont see a 1974 championship pennant. Was one ever made?
2) I was going to buy ultra pro pennant holders and then display them horizontally. What is the best material to stock the holders to the wall? or is there a better way to display
3) These pennants aren't really high end, but how do i ensure they are authentic and not reproductions.

Appreciate the insight.

Taylor

[rlevy]

I can only answer your 2nd question. I use two medium size 3m command picture hanging strips on the back of the pennant case. Just make sure you clean the application spots with rubbing alcohol and follow the directions and they hold well. I use a cardboard template so I can be certain I apply the strips in the same spot each time for every pennant so if I want to change the display I just pop one off and put up a different pennant.

Edit to add that Amazon sells the hanging strips in large packages at much cheaper prices than stores like Staples.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Thanks Mark and Greg...I had never seen this Harvard pennant before either. What was intriguing to me is the similarity of the players uniform to the uniforms worn in this 1890 team photo. Harvard's uniform seems to have changed by the time the 1900s roll around. Makes me wonder if this could be from the 19th century.

I'm sure there are people here more familiar with Harvard football history than I. Would love input if anyone has any theories on this pennant.

The Harvard Player in the pennant is wearing what they called a Union Suit, Circa 1890 - 1910. See links for a couple of examples...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/406168460137653954/


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/387098530451774794/

A great pair of TOC era Pennants!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rlevy

I can only answer your 2nd question. I use two medium size 3m command picture hanging strips on the back of the pennant case. Just make sure you clean the application spots with rubbing alcohol and follow the directions and they hold well. I use a cardboard template so I can be certain I apply the strips in the same spot each time for every pennant so if I want to change the display I just pop one off and put up a different pennant.

Edit to add that Amazon sells the hanging strips in large packages at much cheaper prices than stores like Staples.

Costco is even cheaper, if you need a slew of them!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

A few quick questions

1) I want to get an Oakland A's pennant from their 4 world championships in Oakland. A quick eBay search reveals their 1972 WS Championship, 1973 (shows 1972-73) and 1989. However, I dont see a 1974 championship pennant. Was one ever made?
2) I was going to buy ultra pro pennant holders and then display them horizontally. What is the best material to stock the holders to the wall? or is there a better way to display
3) These pennants aren't really high end, but how do i ensure they are authentic and not reproductions.

Appreciate the insight.

Taylor

1) I’m sure they did. Keep looking.

3) It’s doubtful anyone has reproduced pennants of this vintage. Even your earliest one will probably be made of the synthetic stuff that replaced wool/felt.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The Harvard Player in the pennant is wearing what they called a Union Suit, Circa 1890 - 1910. See links for a couple of examples...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/406168460137653954/


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/387098530451774794/

A great pair of TOC era Pennants!

Good stuff Mark. Thanks! I thought I googled every possible combination but never came across these pics.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

A few quick questions

1) I want to get an Oakland A's pennant from their 4 world championships in Oakland. A quick eBay search reveals their 1972 WS Championship, 1973 (shows 1972-73) and 1989. However, I dont see a 1974 championship pennant. Was one ever made?
2) I was going to buy ultra pro pennant holders and then display them horizontally. What is the best material to stock the holders to the wall? or is there a better way to display
3) These pennants aren't really high end, but how do i ensure they are authentic and not reproductions.

Appreciate the insight.

Taylor

Did a Google Images search and found this pic, only one that came up that shows ‘74. What’s interesting is the MLB trademark ... observe! I actually use thumbtacks for my holders, one in the upper LH corner through the plastic, and one by the tip (not through the holder) on which the holder rests. It’s in a basement with cheap paneling, which is almost a cork board at this point ...

[Teamgluck]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Picked these two up in the last few weeks. Priced too cheaply to pass up. They have to be at least 100 years old. Both 34" excluding tassels. Anyone have any idea who the maker would be on these? Chicago Pennant Co. was around at that time.

I've found a similar pennant (but not exact) using the same font and a circle shaped graphic, as on the Harvard pennant. The tag on that one reads: Henry Schwartz of 15 Ann St New York.

Domer...Does that name meaning anything to you?

These are great pennants and ones I thought about bidding on! They are NOT Chicago Pennant Company pennants. They are likely from an earlier time period when the Ivy leagues ruled the rue of college football.

Chicago Pennant Company pennants or ChiPenCo have:

1. Tassels cut vertically and NOT on a bias
2. Tassels have the same color as the pennant backing
3. Lettering in the same color as the binding strip on the end
4. Hand sewn felt for the logo and the lettering.

[Teamgluck]

Does anyone make UV proof plastic or softcover cases for oversized pennants?

The largest I know are standard 33X12 plastic cases. It is a real pain in the a** when I get an oversized pennant and have the logo partially sticking out of the end of the case.

[Teamgluck]

IMG_6650.jpg

IMG_6651.jpg

These are my favorite BTW The University of Chattanooga Moccasins

[ser1979]

Recently picked up a few more Tiger pennants for my collection. The 1939 pennant I just happened to stumble upon in a Detroit Tiger face book page. The 64 picture pennant is in rough shape. I have several and it was dirt cheap so I figured I'd pick it up and try my luck at cleaning / bleaching to see how it goes.

[Bumpus Jones]

Great pennants guys. Jordan that injun pennant is super cool!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Picked these two up in the last few weeks. Priced too cheaply to pass up. They have to be at least 100 years old. Both 34" excluding tassels. Anyone have any idea who the maker would be on these? Chicago Pennant Co. was around at that time.

I've found a similar pennant (but not exact) using the same font and a circle shaped graphic, as on the Harvard pennant. The tag on that one reads: Henry Schwartz of 15 Ann St New York.

Domer...Does that name meaning anything to you?

Great pennants! So, I've never once come across that maker you identified: Henry Schwartz of New York City. I don't know that the two pennants were made by the same maker ... could be. Hard to say, right? The two letter fonts used are similar; but not identical.

That style of font was used throughout the 1910s by several pennant makers that had adopted the screen printing method for felt pennants; and, you couldn't replicate this font via any other method (i.e., sewn letters).

The fact that they were screen printed tells us they were made after 1907; probably closer to 1910, when this method became more widely used.

The most obvious candidate for either maker was The Reproduction Co. of New York City. They are believed to be the first manufacturer to patent and manufacture pennants via the screen printed method. With that said, they tended to use the same stock graphic illustrations; and these don't appear to be ones they used. Two other possibilities: Annin; and Langrock Bros., both of New York City. Both followed Reproduction Co.'s lead in adopting screen printing by the early 1910s.

Although Chicago Pennant Co. opened its doors by 1910, I don't believe they made these. Their earliest pennants all had labels that clearly identified them by name and address; and, I don't believe they ever screen printed a pennant in the 1910s (or ever?). Their early stuff was all sewn letter; and by the 1940s, they used primarily flocked graphics.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Great pennants! So, I've never once come across that maker you identified: Henry Schwartz of New York City. I don't know that the two pennants were made by the same maker ... could be. Hard to say, right? The two letter fonts used are similar; but not identical.

That style of font was used throughout the 1910s by several pennant makers that had adopted the screen printing method for felt pennants; and, you couldn't replicate this font via any other method (i.e., sewn letters).

The fact that they were screen printed tells us they were made after 1907; probably closer to 1910, when this method became more widely used.

The most obvious candidate for either maker was The Reproduction Co. of New York City. They are believed to be the first manufacturer to patent and manufacture pennants via the screen printed method. With that said, they tended to use the same stock graphic illustrations; and these don't appear to be ones they used. Two other possibilities: Annin; and Langrock Bros., both of New York City. Both followed Reproduction Co.'s lead in adopting screen printing by the early 1910s.

Although Chicago Pennant Co. opened its doors by 1910, I don't believe they made these. Their earliest pennants all had labels that clearly identified them by name and address; and, I don't believe they ever screen printed a pennant in the 1910s (or ever?). Their early stuff was all sewn letter; and by the 1940s, they used primarily flocked graphics.

Ahhh yes. Thanks Kyle. I forgot about The Reproduction Company. I did a quick scan of your website to see who was around back then and they weren't listed. Will you be doing an article on them?

[71buc]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Did a Google Images search and found this pic, only one that came up that shows ‘74. What’s interesting is the MLB trademark ... observe! I actually use thumbtacks for my holders, one in the upper LH corner through the plastic, and one by the tip (not through the holder) on which the holder rests. It’s in a basement with cheap paneling, which is almost a cork board at this point ...

There is a yellow version of that one as well.

[perezfan]

NM

[thetahat]

Okay somebody explain this Lelands auction to me. I just got a red one in REA for an even grand that came in a frame that might have cost half that alone. This one is exploding. I think this one is slightly better condition, but is blue the harder color than red? My searches seem to come up about even.

Whatever the case, if one of you wins it, and you want a frame made just for this pennant ....

[ooo-ribay]

What do you guys think of this? Another Net54 member alerted me of it. Any tough pennants in there? What do you think it would have done on ebay?

https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/74...173?offset=160

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Okay somebody explain this Lelands auction to me. I just got a red one in REA for an even grand that came in a frame that might have cost half that alone. This one is exploding. I think this one is slightly better condition, but is blue the harder color than red? My searches seem to come up about even.

Whatever the case, if one of you wins it, and you want a frame made just for this pennant ....

I'll explain it like this:

If I'm selling, I get the red price.

If I want to buy, it goes for the blue price.

[thetahat]

[QUOTE=ooo-ribay;1989402]What do you guys think of this? Another Net54 member alerted me of it. Any tough pennants in there? What do you think it would have done on ebay?

https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/74...173?offset=160[/QUOTE

Interesting .... looks like a good deal!