I may have to sue Fanatics or Fedex-UPDATED 5/8/25 AT END OF THREAD

[ZiggerZagger]

Russ -- good chatting with you a few months back, and like the others I'm gutted for you.

My recent FedEx experience was rough as well:

PSA Reholder submission
-Just over 70k in value
-Sent back to me FedEx Overnight service, and moving through system on 01/09
-Not delivered 01/10. Nor on 01/11, nor 01/12
-Out for delivery on 01/13 and I was home all day, waiting
-No delivery attempt 01/13, but at end of day the driver stated 'delivery attempted, no recipient available', and then uploaded a blacked out photo with her finger over the camera lens to prove a delivery had been attempted
-Customer service of absolutely no help via phone
-01/14 successful delivery of the Overnight service package

Also, PSA has started shipping cards back in poly bags, rather than multiple boxes it seems. The corner of the single box was crunched to heck, but thankfully slabs were spared. Must have taken a direct blow on the corner when dropped on a hard surface.

That said, had a wonderful experience with UPS this week on an Overnight delivery. There you have it

Hoping for the very best possible outcome for you, Russ.
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[Exhibitman]

USPS registered. Period.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

USPS registered. Period.

Yeah but do people have the patience in this day and age of instant gratification? It just took a card two weeks plus to get to me in Massachusetts from New Mexico.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

USPS registered. Period.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
This

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by conor912

I've always wondered about that. I totally get the validity of that argument, but I also don't feel comfortable with a delivery guy knowing A) my package is worth his yearly salary, and B) the name, address, and face of a house that has these types of valuable items in it. It's a double edged sword, for sure.

Very good points....especially B

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

USPS registered. Period.

For likely less than the price of shipping and insurance, I’d just buy a plane ticket and pick it up….but the cake is baked.

[clamendo]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

USPS registered. Period.

Once I had a registered USPS package opened and tampered with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

For likely less than the price of shipping and insurance, I’d just buy a plane ticket and pick it up….but the cake is baked.

Registered mail is fairly reasonably priced, no?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Registered mail is fairly reasonably priced, no?

That’s been my experience. My recollection is that I’ve shipped using USPS registered mail with $25k of insurance for less than $100.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Registered mail is fairly reasonably priced, no?

The fees for USPS Registered Mail are found on Page 28 of this USPS publication: https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals.../notice123.pdf

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

That’s been my experience. My recollection is that I’ve shipped using USPS registered mail with $25k of insurance for less than $100.

https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...ot123_063.html

Now at a declared value of $15 million, you're talking real money.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Registered mail is fairly reasonably priced, no?

Yes, I just meant if you want it faster than Registered. The rare times I have used it, it took so long it felt like they were walking it across the damn country.

[TiffanyCards]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Here are the facts:
I won a PSA graded trading card for around $40K in a Fanatics auction

Added to the Stolen Card Database
1984 Michael Jordan 101 Star PSA 7 cert# 86667417

[Vintagedeputy]

At the end of the day, no delivery service is perfect and we’ve all got stories about issues we’ve had. It’s a shame really. You should be able to pay for a service and trust that your contract with that company will be fulfilled.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Very good points....especially B

Russ, good luck. Keep us posted.

[the-illini]

I don't use FedEx anymore - too unreliable and their customer service is terrible.

I had a package arriving via FedEx - missed the first delivery so I worked from home the next day so I would be there - at 7:32 AM I got an email saying delivery was attempted but no one was home. I was 10 feet from my front door; no one attempted delivery. Same thing happened the next day.

In my situation I think the delivery driver was overloaded with packages that day (it was during Christmas) so he just took a few and marked attempted delivery without ever going to the address.

[jayshum]

Just wondering what happened with this. Hopefully the OP will provide an update.

[Snapolit1]

For valuable stuff, I would do Fed Ex overnight every time. Is there a chance things could go sideways. Of course. Valuable stuff sent around the world every day by fed ex. Diamonds, rare coins, even body parts. I have to imagine there is far less chance it falls off the back of a truck or walks out the back door than at the local P.O.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

For valuable stuff, I would do Fed Ex overnight every time. Is there a chance things could go sideways. Of course. Valuable stuff sent around the world every day by fed ex. Diamonds, rare coins, even body parts. I have to imagine there is far less chance it falls off the back of a truck or walks out the back door than at the local P.O.

The quality of Fed Ex service to business recipients may be better than to residential. From my very limited experience, Fex Ex, USPS and UPS are fungible in terms of how often they actually ask me to sign and how often they just leave a package.

[pherbener]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The quality of Fed Ex service to business recipients may be better than to residential. From my very limited experience, Fex Ex, USPS and UPS are fungible in terms of how often they actually ask me to sign and how often they just leave a package.

I agree with you. I use FedEx every day for my business and can count on one hand the problems I've had with them in over a dozen years. That being said, for home deliveries I have about a 70% success rate with them. Packages being left at the wrong house, important packages left under my mailbox( I have a quarter mile driveway) etc. USPS Registered is the way to go if I'm moving expensive collectibles.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I agree with you. I use FedEx every day for my business and can count on one hand the problems I've had with them in over a dozen years. That being said, for home deliveries I have about a 70% success rate with them. Packages being left at the wrong house, important packages left under my mailbox( I have a quarter mile driveway) etc. USPS Registered is the way to go if I'm moving expensive collectibles.

Old clip but always makes me laugh

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Just wondering what happened with this. Hopefully the OP will provide an update.

Same, very curious.

[frankbmd]

When I lived in northern Wisconsin. Fedex left a Christmas package at my neighbor's house. They were out of town for the holiday. The sender insisted that he had received notification of delivery. The package sat on the neighbor's doorstep for 6 days before I discovered it. It had been outside in single digit weather for 144 hours. The sender, not knowing my local weather, was concerned.

I opened the package immediately and it was fine.

What did the package contain you ask?

ICE CREAM

[jchcollins]

We are another month out. Any updates? I always hope stories like this have a surprise happy ending, even if that's not very likely.

[samosa4u]

What was the point of starting this thread and getting people to blabber four pages only to go quiet ??

[jchcollins]

A month later, can I echo the reply above this?

Inquiring minds want to know, Russ. What happened? (Other than your attorney likely advising you to quit posting updates in an online forum…)


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[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The quality of Fed Ex service to business recipients may be better than to residential. From my very limited experience, Fex Ex, USPS and UPS are fungible in terms of how often they actually ask me to sign and how often they just leave a package.

This is the complete truth, lol.

USPS is around 90% of the time they completely ignore the signature requirements for me. I ordered a 8000 dollar ring for the wife one Christmas and they just dropped it in the mailbox. The delivery confirmation remained open and if I was most of the buyers I quit selling on eBay because of, I could have been sneaky about it.

Fed Ex asks about 70% of the time, UPS seems around the same. The one thing they usually follow through on is signature for my ammunition deliveries. Although once UPS dropped 2000 rounds of 9mm on my porch while on a business trip totally ignoring the signature and it sat there for 3 days till I got home.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This is the complete truth, lol.

USPS is around 90% of the time they completely ignore the signature requirements for me. I ordered a 8000 dollar ring for the wife one Christmas and they just dropped it in the mailbox. The delivery confirmation remained open and if I was most of the buyers I quit selling on eBay because of, I could have been sneaky about it.

Fed Ex asks about 70% of the time, UPS seems around the same. The one thing they usually follow through on is signature for my ammunition deliveries. Although once UPS dropped 2000 rounds of 9mm on my porch while on a business trip totally ignoring the signature and it sat there for 3 days till I got home.

I would bet that in most cases the fault is on the sender. When you mail a package signature confirmation you have to make sure you put no when asked if an electronic signature is ok because an electronic signature doesn't require the package to be signed for. You can also send packages signature receipt required and with that the person has to sign a receipt sent with the package and that gets sent back to the person that mailed the package.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I would bet that in most cases the fault is on the sender. When you mail a package signature confirmation you have to make sure you put no when asked if an electronic signature is ok because an electronic signature doesn't require the package to be signed for. You can also send packages signature receipt required and with that the person has to sign a receipt sent with the package and that gets sent back to the person that mailed the package.

If the sender allows electronic signature, the recipient still has to electronically sign. If they don't, the USPS is supposed to collect a signature. It sounds like in Justin's case, they don't. I've had the same experience. It's inconvenient for the carrier to have to ring the door, wait, and then when no one answers, fill out a slip and leave it.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If the sender allows electronic signature, the recipient still has to electronically sign. If they don't, the USPS is supposed to collect a signature. It sounds like in Justin's case, they don't. I've had the same experience. It's inconvenient for the carrier to have to ring the door, wait, and then when no one answers, fill out a slip and leave it.

I could be wrong but I think if you're signed up for electonic delivery the mail carrier can just use you're electronic signature that's stored in the USPS system
when they deliver the package.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I could be wrong but I think if you're signed up for electonic delivery the mail carrier can just use you're electronic signature that's stored in the USPS system
when they deliver the package.

No, you have to actually apply the signature online to a specific package. It's not a blanket, in advance thing.

[MJRaider]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I could be wrong but I think if you're signed up for electonic delivery the mail carrier can just use you're electronic signature that's stored in the USPS system
when they deliver the package.

Correct. I have it keyed on my Informed Delivery login and I just click if I want to add the electronic signature. If I don't, they will come knock on the door.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, you have to actually apply the signature online to a specific package. It's not a blanket, in advance thing.

That's how it's supposed to work but I got the impression that it's another one of those gray areas created by the pandemic that a mail carrier can exploit if they choose to but if the sender selects no electronic signature it takes away that option.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's how it's supposed to work but I got the impression that it's another one of those gray areas created by the pandemic that a mail carrier can exploit if they choose to but if the sender selects no electronic signature it takes away that option.

I wouldn't think the carrier knows they don't have to deliver a package personally unless the recipient actually applies the signature to the package, which generates some sort of message. I think carriers just leave things even knowing they are supposed to collect a signature.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Although once UPS dropped 2000 rounds of 9mm on my porch while on a business trip ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

What was the point of starting this thread and getting people to blabber four pages only to go quiet ??

To solicit advice? I mean it would be great if Russ posted an update, but obviously he has decided or been advised not to.

[russkcpa]

Thanks for all of the messages folks....a special thanks to Peter Spaeth. His last comment was spot on. I can't say a lot at this time other than after MUCH discussion with Fanatics legal department and presentation of all my evidence (and with the threat of legal action against them as the party responsible for delivery) we mutually agreed on a credit (NOT a refund) to my Fanatics account in the amount of the purchase price. I felt that was a good deal for both parties. It saved me the cost and hassle of a civil suit. I'm not sure if Fanatics will go after Fedex and at this point or just eat it and frankly, don't give a shit. The card was decertified by PSA. I'm sure the card is out there either in raw condition or regraded by PSA or BGS. I've stopped trying to look at every card for sale or up for auction to see if it matches mine. From NOW ON I am having all Fedex packages held for pickup. This has been a real eye opening lesson for me and I thank everyone for their helpful comments (especially about experiences with Fedex "signature confirmation" ).
Regards,
Russ

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If the sender allows electronic signature, the recipient still has to electronically sign. If they don't, the USPS is supposed to collect a signature. It sounds like in Justin's case, they don't. I've had the same experience. It's inconvenient for the carrier to have to ring the door, wait, and then when no one answers, fill out a slip and leave it.

I think this is part of the case for my situation. It may also be slanted because my mailman has a walking route as our mailboxes are all porch or mail slots. If he doesn’t deliver it, they have to continue carrying the item until it’s time to walk back to the truck for a restock. I have a suspicion they are shedding weight as fast as possible.

Oh and Samosa4u you made me laugh pretty hard on that one, lol. I can see how someone could think that’s a lot and it did annoy me quite a bit just leaving it on the porch like that. However, when it’s your hobby and you are a retired competitive shooter, 2000 is about 4 trips to the range some months. It can get really expensive when I am practicing rifle or clays.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Thanks for all of the messages folks....a special thanks to Peter Spaeth. His last comment was spot on. I can't say a lot at this time other than after MUCH discussion with Fanatics legal department and presentation of all my evidence (and with the threat of legal action against them as the party responsible for delivery) we mutually agreed on a credit (NOT a refund) to my Fanatics account in the amount of the purchase price. I felt that was a good deal for both parties. It saved me the cost and hassle of a civil suit. I'm not sure if Fanatics will go after Fedex and at this point or just eat it and frankly, don't give a shit. The card was decertified by PSA. I'm sure the card is out there either in raw condition or regraded by PSA or BGS. I've stopped trying to look at every card for sale or up for auction to see if it matches mine. From NOW ON I am having all Fedex packages held for pickup. This has been a real eye opening lesson for me and I thank everyone for their helpful comments (especially about experiences with Fedex "signature confirmation" ).
Regards,
Russ

Russ, glad to hear you fought for and received a resolution you found acceptable. I have almost exclusively used "hold for pickup" for USPS, FedEx, and UPS shipments valued at more than a couple hundred bucks for years now. Maybe it is a little bit of paranoia but for someone who lives in the suburbs of a major city, it's not an inconvenience to use the "hold for pickup" option.

[jchcollins]

Thanks for the update Russ - glad you found a resolution! A cautionary tale, to be sure...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Thanks for all of the messages folks....a special thanks to Peter Spaeth. His last comment was spot on. I can't say a lot at this time other than after MUCH discussion with Fanatics legal department and presentation of all my evidence (and with the threat of legal action against them as the party responsible for delivery) we mutually agreed on a credit (NOT a refund) to my Fanatics account in the amount of the purchase price. I felt that was a good deal for both parties. It saved me the cost and hassle of a civil suit. I'm not sure if Fanatics will go after Fedex and at this point or just eat it and frankly, don't give a shit. The card was decertified by PSA. I'm sure the card is out there either in raw condition or regraded by PSA or BGS. I've stopped trying to look at every card for sale or up for auction to see if it matches mine. From NOW ON I am having all Fedex packages held for pickup. This has been a real eye opening lesson for me and I thank everyone for their helpful comments (especially about experiences with Fedex "signature confirmation" ).
Regards,
Russ

I'm glad it worked out and that Fanatics stepped up as they were required to, even if it took some work to get there. Not the perfect solution which of course would have been a full refund, but close enough as you did not compromise the amount.

[ruth-gehrig]

At the beginning of Covid I had a five figured package delivered to me via Fed Ex. As an expensive package I paid for direct signature required. Living in an apartment at the time and not knowing whether I would be home at the time I was wondering how they would handle it if not home. They dropped the package and left. No signature(covid reasoning) and no knock. I paid for a service but didn't receive it. Isn't that considered theft??

Also during covid I resold this same item that was sent to me. Took it to FedEx and was asked if I wanted the recipient to sign for it. I asked if I paid for it was the driver going to get a signature. Clerk said something along the lines of being in the middle of covid signatures weren't being obtained. I then asked him why they were even offering a service(and charging for it) when they knew it wasn't going to be done!! I didn't get any satisfactory reply. That urked me to the point of paying a visit to an attorney for the possibility of a class action lawsuit. Across the country can you imagine how much money all the shipping services made off the add on cost of signature required during covid?? I believe FedEx was $5 a package at the time. I was told that typically class actions involve people being physically harmed and the time involved with something like this wouldn't be worth it to anyone I still don't see either of those ideas being true.

[samosa4u]

I'm glad this got sorted out.

Russ, I want you to think of all this as a second chance ...
These Star basketball cards just recently started getting graded by PSA and all the sheep (baaa baaaa !!!) have driven the Jordans up to insane prices. They're gonna' come down hard one day.
You're better off spending that money on vintage.

[sacentaur]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Isn't that considered theft??

Nope, just incompetence.

I likewise had a 5 figure package signature required simply left at my back door even though my son and I were both home at the time (we didn’t hear his truck and there was no doorbell or knock).

About a half hour later he came back in a semi-panic and of course I gave him my signature; he was our usual delivery guy and we were on really good terms.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by sacentaur

Nope, just incompetence.

I likewise had a 5 figure package signature required simply left at my back door even though my son and I were both home at the time (we didn’t hear his truck and there was no doorbell or knock).

About a half hour later he came back in a semi-panic and of course I gave him my signature; he was our usual delivery guy and we were on really good terms.

I don't think them leaving a package without a signature is theft!
What i think is theft is them charging for signature knowing full well they were not going to be obtaining it during covid.

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm glad this got sorted out.

Russ, I want you to think of all this as a second chance ...
These Star basketball cards just recently started getting graded by PSA and all the sheep (baaa baaaa !!!) have driven the Jordans up to insane prices. They're gonna' come down hard one day.
You're better off spending that money on vintage.

Summer of 2024 that PSA 7 101 would have been $65 to $70K and now just under $40K which seems to be a very solid base. I would consider that "coming down hard"

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

I don't think them leaving a package without a signature is theft!
What i think is theft is them charging for signature knowing full well they were not going to be obtaining it during covid.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that at no time did UPS waive the signature requirement during COVID. Contact with the (a) resident was required and the driver was to input the receiver. This was to avoid handling the DIAD (device).

If no contact was made, package would be redirected to an Access Point or be returned to the station for another attempt in the future.

Edited to add: This was the POLICY. Not to say individual drivers didn't skirt the policy.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by Deertick

I can tell you with 100% certainty that at no time did UPS waive the signature requirement during COVID. Contact with the (a) resident was required and the driver was to input the receiver. This was to avoid handling the DIAD (device).

If no contact was made, package would be redirected to an Access Point or be returned to the station for another attempt in the future.

Edited to add: This was the POLICY. Not to say individual drivers didn't skirt the policy.

How long have you been with UPS and what is your position? My situation was FedEx in particular but appreciate your response.

[pauliocoggins]

I don't use FedEx anymore - too unreliable and their customer service is terrible.I've had the same experience. It's inconvenient for the carrier to have to ring the door, wait, and then when no one answers...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pauliocoggins

I don't use FedEx anymore - too unreliable and their customer service is terrible.I've had the same experience. It's inconvenient for the carrier to have to ring the door, wait, and then when no one answers...

Gone.
Even our resident trolls are getting sassy about this!