O/T - Juan Soto - 15 years/$765M with the Mets

[packs]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

He's such a special talent that they used him in the post season . . .as a pinch runner? Just very odd.

Boone also decided to insert Nestor Cortes into a game after he hadn't pitched for a month. I'm not sure one thing says anything about another.

Just for fun I looked at the other international prospects signed the same year Dominguez was, especially since it's been suggested he isn't the talent he was meant to be:

Dominguez was the number 2 international prospect the year the Yankees signed him:

1. Yoelqui Cespedes - currently in independent ball
2. Dominguez - major league player expected to be starting outfielder in 2025
3. Robert Puason - same age but yet to advance beyond A ball
4. Pedro Leon - 26 years old and played 7 games last season at the MLB level
5. Norge Vera - 24 years old and in A ball
6. Bayron Lora - killed somebody while driving and out of baseball
7. Luis Rodriguez - same age as Dominguez but yet to play above A ball
8. Erick Pena - same age as Dominguez but yet to play above A ball
9. Ronnier Quintero - 22 years old and out of baseball
10. Yiddi Cappe - same age as Dominguez but yet to play above A ball

I would say the Yankees signed the best player.

[jingram058]

Been thinking about this rant for quite a while. Now that Soto is the latest to walk for a colossal contract, now it seems appropriate. Couple of things:

Perhaps Soto should have consulted with Cano, another who walked away from being the toast of the Big Apple. Sure he got a lot of money. Didn't win any World Series rings in Seattle though. But if all you care about is money, who cares?

The Yankees have 27 World Series championships, and yes, the last one was quite a few years ago now. But the thing is, none of these wannabe pretenders is going to catch the Yankees in my lifetime. And maybe if The Boss was still running the Yankees' show, things would be different. Maybe Soto would still be a Yankee. Who knows? And maybe I will eat these words, but I seriously doubt the Mets will win a World Series anytime soon. They just dropped a realistic chance to buy a World Series with Soto's contract. Who can they afford to bring in around him? They already have to have a sponsor name for their ballpark.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

He's such a special talent that they used him in the post season . . .as a pinch runner? Just very odd.

As Packs said, I think that says more about Boone than Dominguez. Dominguez should have been in the starting line-up in the postseason rather than the pitiful Verdugo - Dominguez has looked good in the majors overall and he did very well in AAA this year. But Boone for whatever reason decided he'd stay loyal to Verdugo and keep Dominguez on the bench to the bitter end.

Dominguez won't make anyone forget about Mickey Mantle, but I think he'll be good.

[Howe’s Hunter]

$805 million for 15 years.

That's $53,666,666.70 a year.

In a 162 game season, that is $331, 275.72 a game.

If each game lasts two-and-a-half hours, that is $132,510.28 an hour.

Granted, there is pre-season, post season, etc., and I'm sure incentive clauses for MVP, Gold Glove, etc. But still, that is a great hourly salary.

[bmattioli]

Don't hate the player. if some owner wanted to pay you that kind of cash you'd be a fool and say no thanks..

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I agree Ohtani is the better player, but Soto is only 26, and Ohtani is 30.

Not that Soto’s age justifies a contract of over $700 million though.

Soto was never my favorite player, but as a Mets fan, I hope he gels with the team and helps them win a championship, even if it will be somewhat cheapened by the fact that they are outspending everyone else in what seems a somewhat reckless way.

Also a Mets fan. Reckless? Steve cohen made $8bn since he bought the Mets at least. The Dodgers added Snell to that team already. The Yankees made the WS with the help of Stanton, who they overpaid and mothballed until he could contribute after many injuries. Those two made the WS. What do the Mets do, let them get all of the top players and wait five years to build the farm system better? They will do that too, and be competitive for years to come. They have been outspent for decades while having poor ownership. It’s their time. Let’s see if it helps!

[Balticfox]

Juan Soto needs to be sent down to AAA now to sharpen his game. His batting averages of .275 and .288 in the last two years tell me he's not hitting the ball where it's pitched. And his stolen base totals of only 12 and then 7 indicate he lacks hustle.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

The Yankees have 27 World Series championships, and yes, the last one was quite a few years ago now. But the thing is, none of these wannabe pretenders is going to catch the Yankees in my lifetime.

So your pitch to Soto would have been "sign with us because before you were born we won 24 championships"?

Or, if the press reports are correct, "Don't sign with the Mets for 15 years, sign with us for 16, because 16 years ago we won a title."

[calvindog]

It is kind of odd that he signed with the Mets when the Yankees offered basically the same deal. He was just in the WS with the Yankees and has Judge hitting behind him.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It is kind of odd that he signed with the Mets when the Yankees offered basically the same deal. He was just in the WS with the Yankees and has Judge hitting behind him.

Apparently there were some subtle differences that made the Mets deal worth somewhat more even though the numbers appear to be very close.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/y...ted-than-that/

[ullmandds]

I read that the Mets would allow Soto to have his family in the clubhouse that seemed to be important to him.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

So your pitch to Soto would have been "sign with us because before you were born we won 24 championships"?

Or, if the press reports are correct, "Don't sign with the Mets for 15 years, sign with us for 16, because 16 years ago we won a title."

My pitch would be/is nobody anywhere is worth that ridiculous amount of money. So if you sign with the Mets, who have been desperately trying to equal the Yankees in New York throughout their entire existence, great. They won't be able to put a team around you, because sooner or later, they can't afford to. Just one indication of that is corporate sponsorship for the name of the ballpark. I don't see the Yankees perspiring over him walking. I believe the Yankees are better off without yet another albatross (Stanton's insane contract). They claim they have a backup plan. We'll see.

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

None of it is deferred. I believe he will be worth the money!

That is $51,000,000 per year average. If he plays 14 more years and we do some quick math and triple his current stats we come up with:

603 HR
2802 Hits
.285 BA
3 WS wins
3 batting titles

He will maintain the pace through the age of 40. I’m guessing not 1 of those stats comes to fruition. Since it’s memorialized here it will be fun to check back in 14 years.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by jingram058

My pitch would be/is nobody anywhere is worth that ridiculous amount of money. So if you sign with the Mets, who have been desperately trying to equal the Yankees in New York throughout their entire existence, great. They won't be able to put a team around you, because sooner or later, they can't afford to. Just one indication of that is corporate sponsorship for the name of the ballpark. I don't see the Yankees perspiring over him walking. I believe the Yankees are better off without yet another albatross (Stanton's insane contract). They claim they have a backup plan. We'll see.

I'm pretty sure the Citi Field naming rights were in place before the current ownership bought the team. Also, Steve Cohen is worth over $20 billion so I think he'll be ok even if he has to spend more to fill out the team around Soto.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Hopefully Sasaki is next. Let's Go Mets!

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Makes Ohtani, who is a much better player, look cheap

+1

[nat]

Free agent contracts have nothing to do with ticket prices, unless and only to the extent that signing a free agent increases demand for tickets. Teams are already charging whatever price for tickets that they figure is going to maximize revenue. Unless people are going to be willing to pay higher prices so that they can see Soto (which they might!), the Mets aren't going to be able to raise prices. And if people are willing to pay higher prices because they're excited about their team, that's not a sign of an unhealthy sport at all. Quite the opposite.

Will Soto be "worth" this contract, is really two questions. There's an economic question about whether the increased revenue that the team gets from having him (which could come from higher ticket prices if folks are willing to pay more to see him, or from extra sponsorship deals, or from post-season appearances they wouldn't have made otherwise, or larger cable deals or whatever) will more than make up for what he's getting paid. And there's also a question particular to the guy who is going to be writing Soto's paychecks. Is Steve Cohen going to be happy about it? The former question is difficult to answer, I'm not going to even try to predict baseball finances 15 years out. As for the latter question though: Cohen has more money than God. Like, nearly an order of magnitude more than some of the other baseball owners. He's not just rich, and he's rich by the standards of guys who own sports teams. And he has apparently decided that the Mets are his new favorite toy (see, for example, the Verlander and Scherzer signings) and doesn't mind spending money on it. We buy cardboard rectangles with pictures of baseball players on them. He buys baseball players. Whether this deal will be worth it to him is more a question about how much he enjoys his hobby than it is about how much (if any) money he's going to make on this deal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I agree Ohtani is the better player, but Soto is only 26, and Ohtani is 30.

Not that Soto’s age justifies a contract of over $700 million though.

Soto was never my favorite player, but as a Mets fan, I hope he gels with the team and helps them win a championship, even if it will be somewhat cheapened by the fact that they are outspending everyone else in what seems a somewhat reckless way.

Soto is closing in on 40 WAR at age 26 that's pretty extraordinary.

[timber63401]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Been thinking about this rant for quite a while. Now that Soto is the latest to walk for a colossal contract, now it seems appropriate. Couple of things:

Perhaps Soto should have consulted with Cano, another who walked away from being the toast of the Big Apple. Sure he got a lot of money. Didn't win any World Series rings in Seattle though. But if all you care about is money, who cares?

The Yankees have 27 World Series championships, and yes, the last one was quite a few years ago now. But the thing is, none of these wannabe pretenders is going to catch the Yankees in my lifetime. And maybe if The Boss was still running the Yankees' show, things would be different. Maybe Soto would still be a Yankee. Who knows? And maybe I will eat these words, but I seriously doubt the Mets will win a World Series anytime soon. They just dropped a realistic chance to buy a World Series with Soto's contract. Who can they afford to bring in around him? They already have to have a sponsor name for their ballpark.

It would blow your mind if you knew how high the percentages of MLB players don't care that much about winning WS rings. It would blow it more if you knew how many don't even really like playing baseball. Its a job to a lot of them them .Nothing more nothing less. There are they to make money and make the most they possible can. Don't blame Soto blame the teams.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by jingram058

My pitch would be/is nobody anywhere is worth that ridiculous amount of money. So if you sign with the Mets, who have been desperately trying to equal the Yankees in New York throughout their entire existence, great. They won't be able to put a team around you, because sooner or later, they can't afford to. Just one indication of that is corporate sponsorship for the name of the ballpark. I don't see the Yankees perspiring over him walking. I believe the Yankees are better off without yet another albatross (Stanton's insane contract). They claim they have a backup plan. We'll see.

You obviously dont know anything about Steve Cohen.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

You obviously dont know anything about Steve Cohen.

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

[packs]

What would make the contract worth the money?

A-Rod won 3 MVPS during his initial deal, then won a World Series with the Yankees after opting out. He was not great after signing with the Yankees but I would say most teams would accept the title and everyone was happy with his 3 MVPs during the original phase.

Harper has won an MVP and taken the Phillies to the World Series since he signed his deal.

Ohtani won an MVP and the Dodgers won the World Series in the first year of his deal.

What makes a mega deal worth it?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jingram058

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

Why do you want it to fail? Just about every owner in baseball is a billionaire and all their teams are worth at least $2 billion probably. Many teams could afford Soto but many teams choose not to have big payrolls. If you're a fan of a team, don't you want your team's owner to spend whatever it takes to win? it's not like it's our money that's being spent. The Mets aren't my team but I applaud Cohen for acting like a fan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jingram058

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

Why so hostile? It's just sports.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by packs

What makes a mega deal worth it?

I don't think you can look at any of these mega deals as something that will have gained or evened out value.

When you're paying a premium for what's been done in the past you're generally overpaying from the outset as well as through an age that's past most every athlete's peak.

Gotta spend the money on something.

15 years from now that 51m will still be substantial, but it probably won't be mind-blowing...though it will be for someone's Soto's age.

15 years ago there were 4 guys with 20m+ contracts... Arod (33m), Manny Ramirez (23.8m), Jeter (21.6m), and Mark Teixeira (20.6m).

A few days ago M.Conforto got 17m and W.Adames got 26m average yearly contracts.

[packs]

Sure, but I'm just talking about decade long mega deals and not an expensive rental free agent.

What would have to happen for you to feel like a mega deal was worth it? If the player wins an MVP in your uniform, is that worth it? If the team wins a championship? Makes several World Series appearances but maybe doesn't win a title?

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by jingram058

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

Steve Cohen collects only graded cards, by the way.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Steve Cohen collects only graded cards, by the way.

That's hilarious That made my day!

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by jingram058

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

Well, Steve isnt just about spending money, which he does when he has to. He is about building a great organization, a farm system, and building a consistent winner. Given the bidding here, if the Mets dont spend that, another team spends almost that amount and has the player, and the Mets have to beat them. So he did what he thought was best. He can afford it. If it doesn’t work out he will try something else. It wont blow up in his face, so find another crusade. Drop the anger, it’s not worth it.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Soto is closing in on 40 WAR at age 26 that's pretty extraordinary.

Only if you assign any degree of credibility to this newly hatched WAR stat.



Incidentally, will the Mets still be on the hook for roughly $51 million per year if they cut Soto or send him down to the minors?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jingram058

No I don't. And more importantly, I don't care. All I know for sure is I hope it blows up in his face.

Hopefully you're not just saying that because you're a bitter Yankee fan. The Yankees (whom I hate incidentally) are better off without Soto and his lackadaisical play anyway.

Not that I care about how Steve Cohen wastes his money either of course.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Steve Cohen collects only graded cards, by the way.

Ahhhh, now I understand. He's trying to hype up the "value" of his Juan Soto rookie cards!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Ahhhh, now I understand. He's trying to hype up the "value" of his Juan Soto rookie cards!

Kidding aside, isn't he part of Nat Turner's ownership group?

[BobbyStrawberry]

I actually LOL'd at the headline. I guess this is what passes for Yankee pride these days...

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...o-regret-trade

[JollyElm]

Cohen isn't paying that obnoxious amount of money, WE ARE!!!!

Tickets, souvenirs, TV and streaming services, and f*cking hot dogs, etc., are basically already unaffordable for a normal family of fans, and up, up and away the prices shall continue to go to cover the salary of this guy...

[John1941]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Cohen isn't paying that obnoxious amount of money, WE ARE!!!!

Tickets, souvenirs, TV and streaming services, and f*cking hot dogs, etc., are basically already unaffordable for a normal family of fans, and up, up and away the prices shall continue to go to cover the salary of this guy...

Not really. In 2006 Neil deMause of Baseball Prospectus wrote an article called "Do High Salaries Lead to High Ticket Prices?" He found that the data showed that higher salaries do not lead to higher ticket prices: "in the first dozen years of free agency, as salaries more than tripled, ticket prices actually went down in inflation-adjusted dollars." Increased ticket prices after that point were due more to changes in stadiums than salaries.

deMause explained that tickets are priced for maximize revenue - if raise them above the optimal price, fewer people will buy tickets, and overall revenue will be reduced. "The price point you select for your tickets, then, shouldn't change [after signing some big-$ free agent]: If you're already charging the price that will bring in the most money, then raising ticket prices in response to increased player costs would be foolish. Conversely, if you think you can get away with charging more for tickets, you'd be foolish not to do so, regardless of what you're paying your players."

Of course, ticket prices can rise after big-$ free agents are signed- but that's because of increased demand, not because "those contracts must be paid for!"

The BP article only focuses on ticket prices, but the same reasoning is applicable to souvenirs, concessions, etc.

Whether real world ticket pricing is as straight-forward as all that is debatable, but those are the economic fundamentals at least.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Right. You would need a very inelastic demand curve to just pass along increased expenses in the form of higher ticket prices.

[jayshum]

Not 100% sure, but I think teams get more money from TV broadcast rights than they do from ticket sales.

[packs]

I think more than money spent it's the quality of the team that raises prices. The Yankees are a high quality team and everything in the stadium is expensive. Hypothetically, if the A's had the same payroll as the Yankees but performed the way the A's perform, I don't think they'd be able to charge the same prices for concessions, parking, etc. because it would drive away even the last remaining fans.

[jingram058]

Well, it didn't take the Yankees long to get over the heartbreak of Soto walking, did it? And they aren't through...

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Steve Cohen collects only graded cards, by the way.

Steve Cohen owns the Mookie Ball.

[Gary Dunaier]

Obviously we don't know what kind of an effect Juan Soto will have on the Mets' performance next year. But I think it's safe to say there are going to be a number of Soto-related giveaways for fans attending games at the Citi Field stadium.

I just hope the Mets don't repeat one promotion the Yankees had back in August...

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, it didn't take the Yankees long to get over the heartbreak of Soto walking, did it? And they aren't through...

Yanks were embarrassed by Soto so they had to try something to gun for that elusive second WS in the last 25 years.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Yanks were embarrassed by Soto so they had to try something to gun for that elusive second WS in the last 25 years.

They have 27. All the wannabees have far less. No one will equal that in my lifetime, no matter how much they spend.

[darwinbulldog]

I suppose a person could do a lot of good with that kind of money. Congratulations to the man, and I look forward to seeing what he does with the opportunity.

[G1911]

$765,000,000 to hit a baseball and provide some entertainment. Wow. I suppose that's a little more sensible than $20,000,000,000 to have a hedge fund. It is a little difficult to not conclude that there is something off with this system. Good for the winners of that system who have a talent for something it values, but wow.

[Seven]

Everyone already knows my feelings about how too much money has entered the game. It's ridiculous that players are being paid this much, but I digress. Soto is a spectacular hitter, there's little denying that. He's a decent runner from as far as I know, but I do not think that outfield in Citi field will do him any favors. The Mets also have many holes on their team, that Cohen needs to address as Juan Soto does not fix all of their problems. That being said, I am happy for Mets fans. They got the guy they wanted, it will be interested to see if he lives up to the contract.

I don't think anyone is worth 800 Million. Maybe you can justify it with Ohtani, because of his broad appeal to Japan and also due to the fact that he can pitch. But fact of the matter is, that's a gigantic financial commitment for someone who we have no idea how he will perform. He could very well continue to be the Soto of old, or turn into Mike Trout where he constantly gets hurt, these are the risks that the owner takes. It's not my money though. To quote another member, the fans will pay for this deal. I'm sure the Citi Field ticket prices are getting jacked up higher and higher as I type this.

I'd feel comfortable giving 800 Million to Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays or Ted Williams. That of course assumes they manage to put up the same numbers they did in their respective primes

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Wish the Yanks would have been able to keep him. He certainly made things easier for Judge, but the line had to be drawn somewhere.

I think Scott Boras had more of a say in where Juan Soto was going, then Juan Soto did. I don't think Soto really cared where he ended up.

I disagree...

I never agreed with the Yanks batting Soto in front of Judge- as it had Judge in the 'protecting slot' - thereby actually putting more pressure on Judge whose protection became Stanton, a far streakier hitter than Soto.

Judge did get a lot more RBI opportunities, but, IMO, the order would have been stronger in Judge-Soto-Stanton order.

Soto is disciplined enough to get his walks regardless of position in the order, though hitting in front of Judge was better than hitting in front of Stanton.

.

.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Yanks were embarrassed by Soto so they had to try something to gun for that elusive second WS in the last 25 years.

When you're the most storied, dominant, successful, popular and valuable team in all of Major League Baseball... you have absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about lol

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by Seven

I'd feel comfortable giving 800 Million to Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays or Ted Williams. That of course assumes they manage to put up the same numbers they did in their respective primes

So it’s no longer about reaching the top of the mountain?

Mantle = 7 WS wins
Mays = 1 WS wins
Williams = 0 WS wins

In 1930 Ruth made $80,000. Adjusted to 2024 $’s that’s $1,500,000 for playing a game. Damn good money from any perspective. Most of these guys wouldn’t make anything close in the real world.

Originally Posted by John1941

Not really. In 2006 Neil deMause of Baseball Prospectus wrote an article called "Do High Salaries Lead to High Ticket Prices?" He found that the data showed that higher salaries do not lead to higher ticket prices: "in the first dozen years of free agency, as salaries more than tripled, ticket prices actually went down in inflation-adjusted dollars." Increased ticket prices after that point were due more to changes in stadiums than salaries.

Will all due respect…. What a bunch of horse shit.