Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame

[mainemule]

Thoughts on Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame election for the Class of 2024

https://baseballhall.org/discover/Co...ates-announced

Does Cowboy Joe West merit induction for all time games leader as an ump?

To me, none of these jump off the pages as Hall of Famers.

[jayshum]

I agree that I don't see anyone that I think is an obvious choice. I hope West doesn't get in. Other than longevity, what makes him deserving?

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I agree that I don't see anyone that I think is an obvious choice. I hope West doesn't get in. Other than longevity, what makes him deserving?

Agree! Joe West was awful.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Agree! Joe West was awful.

If he gets in let's also put in Angel Hernandez

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

If he gets in let's also put in Angel Hernandez

: puke-icon:

[theshleps]

So hard to predict these things when we look at other marginal candidates that have gotten in. I wouldn't be surprised if none got in and wouldn't be surprised if a few do despite that they may not be deserving

[Exhibitman]

Hall of Meh...

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

If he gets in let's also put in Angel Hernandez

First ballot Hall of Shamer !

[raulus]

Does attitude and stank eye get bonus votes?

https://youtu.be/yZPevbDtCbM?si=CZaCdvz24WOZetvi

[steve B]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

If he gets in let's also put in Angel Hernandez

Yes, because that would mean he was out of umpiring for a few years

[conor912]

Pretty hard to see a world where Pinella doesn’t get in at some point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As an aside, Piniella's lifetime WAR as a player was only 12.4. That's shocking to me.

[G1911]

This list does not seem like it has serious candidates on it. I guess someone will get in based on who the voting members like the most.

[mainemule]

Originally Posted by conor912

Pretty hard to see a world where Pinella doesn’t get in at some point.

I would agree if he had a second title as a manager. But he only had one. On the surface, he and Leyland have similar managerial records.

And we know Cito has two titles but I do not see him getting in. There are other 2 time winners who will likely not ever get in either- Houk and Tom Kelly.

I know Danny Murtaugh has been on ballot a couple of times. Bill Carrigan is an interesting candidate as he won 2 as a player manager but he had a short managerial career.

Dusty, Tito and Bochy certainly get in as future managerial selections.

[packs]

It is so bizarre to me that someone like Hank Peters would appear on this list. The front office / general manager-type who belongs in the HOF is Gene Michael and he's not on this list.

[mainemule]

The BBWAA will likely vote in at least a couple of players from Beltre, Mauer, Helton, Wagner, Jones, so there will be an induction ceremony summer 2024.

In further reading about the Contemporary candidates I don't see anyone that jumps out at me as a selectee.

Gaston, Pinella, Johnson and White had nice playing careers but they are being considered as managers/executives. Torre was elected as a 4 time WS winning manager, not because of his playing career.

[Rich Klein]

My instinct says Leyland 1st, Piniella 2nd and as I grew up watching/listening to Bill White announce Yankees games I do have a soft spot for hoping he gets in.

To me the HOF need a contributor way of getting in and Bill White would get in that way (As Buck O'Neil should have gotten in all those years ago)

Rich

[packs]

I would like to see a special election for contributors too. I feel like Lefty O’Doul is long overdue in that category.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by packs

I would like to see a special election for contributors too. I feel like Lefty O’Doul is long overdue in that category.

Absolutely.

Thread needs a card

[Fred]

Any support or consideration for Harry Pulliam as an executive?

[FrankWakefield]

Golly... let's be against Bill White for something he didn't do?

He was NL president for 5 years. He wanted to see an increase in the number of black baseball executives, I guess that's what he didn't do.

I'm not the oldest here, nor among the most well read. (Just typing that has me missing Barry Sloate.) But I do recall AL umpires with that odd shaped bit of more mattress make shift chest protector thing that AL umpires used (I think it was invented by an AL umpire.) And AL umpires had those wine colored jackets at some points... seems to me that high strikes and curve balls were called differently in the two leagues. There were differences between the leagues. Bill White was busy, working on and helping with the unification and standardization of the two leagues. Baseball... tradition, that's something we like about baseball. NOT the changes. But we eventually accept the changes. The unification of the AL and NL offices was going against the traditional grain of baseball. (which years did Topps have individual cards for the AL and NL league presidents???) Baseball, generally, is resilient to change. From the present vantage point, I now think that change was a good thing. Baseball's biggest change involved Jackie Robinson. Bill White was the second black player to play in the Carolina League. The NL went to the DH. The bases are bigger. Pitch Clock. Lights at Wrigley. Players stopped leaving gloves on the field as they ran in to bat. Changes.

I agree, Bill White didn't get the front offices in Baseball to increase minorities in those jobs. We collectors didn't get that done, either. I still think that William Dekova White (I remember the entire name from having read about him, and others, in a 1964 Cardinals yearbook, that Dad brought home from a game we attended that year) is a strong and deserving candidate among those listed for consideration. White was with Yogi Berra and Pee Wee Reese in getting Phil Rizzuto into the Hall, I think that was a good move.


Joe West... 4 or 5 years ago there was a study done that said that West missed on just over 20 calls a game when behind the plate. He was an umpire for a long time. He may well have made more bad calls than any other umpire, ever. You could look it up, if you had ok eyesight. I liked Dutch Rennert. Chris Pelekoudas, Doug Harvey, Frank Secory (a south paw), Augie Donatelli... those were the names I'd here when listening to ball games late at night.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Golly... let's be against Bill White for something he didn't do?

He was NL president for 5 years. He wanted to see an increase in the number of black baseball executives, I guess that's what he didn't do.

I'm not the oldest here, nor among the most well read. (Just typing that has me missing Barry Sloate.) But I do recall AL umpires with that odd shaped bit of more mattress make shift chest protector thing that AL umpires used (I think it was invented by an AL umpire.) And AL umpires had those wine colored jackets at some points... seems to me that high strikes and curve balls were called differently in the two leagues. There were differences between the leagues. Bill White was busy, working on and helping with the unification and standardization of the two leagues. Baseball... tradition, that's something we like about baseball. NOT the changes. But we eventually accept the changes. The unification of the AL and NL offices was going against the traditional grain of baseball. (which years did Topps have individual cards for the AL and NL league presidents???) Baseball, generally, is resilient to change. From the present vantage point, I now think that change was a good thing. Baseball's biggest change involved Jackie Robinson. Bill White was the second black player to play in the Carolina League. The NL went to the DH. The bases are bigger. Pitch Clock. Lights at Wrigley. Players stopped leaving gloves on the field as they ran in to bat. Changes.

I agree, Bill White didn't get the front offices in Baseball to increase minorities in those jobs. We collectors didn't get that done, either. I still think that William Dekova White (I remember the entire name from having read about him, and others, in a 1964 Cardinals yearbook, that Dad brought home from a game we attended that year) is a strong and deserving candidate among those listed for consideration. White was with Yogi Berra and Pee Wee Reese in getting Phil Rizzuto into the Hall, I think that was a good move.


Joe West... 4 or 5 years ago there was a study done that said that West missed on just over 20 calls a game when behind the plate. He was an umpire for a long time. He may well have made more bad calls than any other umpire, ever. You could look it up, if you had ok eyesight. I liked Dutch Rennert. Chris Pelekoudas, Doug Harvey, Frank Secory (a south paw), Augie Donatelli... those were the names I'd here when listening to ball games late at night.

It's not what he didn't do, it's that nobody can identify any merit-based hall of fame level achievements of his that he did do.

[JollyElm]

If Piniella gets in, get ready for a flood of new, exorbitantly-priced eBay listings for his rookie card. Not just his 'real' 1964 Topps RC, but his 1968 and 1969 Topps RCs as well. Going to be a lot of scamming going on, because those other two are technically rookie cards, but not his first card. How many sellers are going to spell that out?

Oh well, caveat emptor.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

If Piniella gets in, get ready for a flood of new, exorbitantly-priced eBay listings for his rookie card. Not just his 'real' 1964 Topps RC, but his 1968 and 1969 Topps RCs as well. Going to be a lot of scamming going on, because those other two are technically rookie cards, but not his first card. How many buyers are going to spell that out?

Oh well, caveat emptor.

The one that really cracks me up is when someone asks for big bucks for a guys "manager rookie card", which I think in Piniella's case might be 1986 Topps Traded?

[insidethewrapper]

It's who you know. I think Joe Torre was on the committee ( a good friend).

Record of 1,769–1,728 as a manager. Just a tab over 50%. He has been a baseball man all his life, a HOF now.

IN 2 World Series for Detroit they were 1-8, with Verlander, Scherzer,Porcello as starters and Cabrera in his prime.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

What did Leyland do to deserve that? Wow, a whole ONE World Series title in 22 seasons. This is pitiful.

Heck, put Danny Murtaugh in before this guy.

[BioCRN]

Leyland is very well liked in the baseball world...players, executives, and writers.

Purity tests for HOF'rs aside, being well liked is a big plus when it comes time to vote.

I find him a boring pick, but I don't find the pick unsurprising.

[mainemule]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

What did Leyland do to deserve that? Wow, a whole ONE World Series title in 22 seasons. This is pitiful.

Guess nobody has ever heard of Billy Martin. Heck, put Danny Murtaugh in before this guy.

* Bochy, Baker and Francona will be elected as managers

I needed to look this up as to me post-season means a lot for managers:

Murtaugh/Gaston/Tom Kelly 2 Pennants- 2 WS
Houk 3 Pennants- 2 WS
Leyland 3 Pennants- 1 WS
Martin 2 Pennants- 1 WS
Piniella 1 Pennant- 1 WS

For managers, 3 titles is automatic, 2 and either another pennant or lots of wins usually gets you in. Houk certainly an outlier due to great NYY teams. Bill Carrigan other 2 timer not in.

The 3 pennants separate Leyland and he had some terrific Tigers teams that came up short.

Houk and Charlie Grim look to be only 3 time pennant winners not elected. Grimm has no titles.

EDIT- as HOF speculator I have the attached......

[G1911]

The odds of a corrupt result when you have a voting body of 16 insiders in a closed session is extremely high.

This format is a horrible idea if the intent is any kind of an honest outcome. The writers process has its issues but there are few corrupt choices from that process.

[jayshum]

I have to admit to being happy Joe West didn't come close to getting in. He was part of the group that received less than 5 votes.

[nwfsteve]

Bochum has five pennants and four WS. He will be a lock. A couple posts earlier shortchanged him. I listened to every game White did for years with the Yankees. We had a running joke the way he’d call games. “Line drive to right… check that - grounder to second.” “Deep to center (voice rises). That ball is .. caught on the outfield grass.” I thought he’d get in and I was OK with that.