OMG PSA slabs blatantly altered Tiger Woods rookie, then it passes ebay program

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

As the OP was factually correct and you were factually wrong, it seems your complaint was the one “about the wrong thing”. You might not agree with the complaint, but it’s at least valid and not “about the wrong thing”.

And yet, in the post right above your reply, OP agreed with me as factually correct about his post. Go figure.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

And yet, in the post right above your reply, OP agreed with me as factually correct about his post. Go figure.

eBay is not performing the service you claimed; the seller ships it to PSA who does not look at the card, only the slab, performing the service. This is a fact.

[Snowman]

I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.

Why am I not shocked you would cut out a perforated card that is meant to be removed by hand?

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=Snowman;2259601]I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.[/QUOTEI

It isn't like Bazookas where there is a dotted line meant to be cut. There are perforations and obviously they are meant to be separated by hand, tearing along the perfs. I think it's that simple.

[G1911]

Let’s assume that trimming is arbitrary and doesn’t matter. Let’s assume a cut line and a perforated line are the same thing. It doesn’t make any difference.

Whether or not one agrees with a grading standard, and I would think the vast majority disagree on some point or other, the problem, as any reasonable person would be able to discern, is that the grader routinely ignores their own standards or are too incompetent to notice the obvious that violates their own standards. It is not PSA’s policy to number grade perforated cards trimmed below the perforations.

The condition evaluation scale is, obviously, arbitrary. Whether and how much trimming a card, creasing it, or pushing a pin through it should detract is arbitrary. That it is arbitrary does not mean the grader, who is allegedly an expert, should simply ignore their own standards they have set whenever they don’t notice the obvious or just don’t feel like it.

The distractions, mental gymnastics, and obvious bullshit the PSA shills have to come up with these days is crazy. As usual, there are as many or more people defending the corruption or incompetence than there are those who question it. The hobby will remain a cesspool of crooks and their enablers as people are obviously vested in defending almost any fraud and/or incompetence. To question it would risk devaluing the precious slabs, and when push comes to shove it’s all about profit over honesty, logic, common sense, or integrity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think that in deciding to play ostrich in the face of the scandal, PSA calculated that most of its customer base was loyal and/or didn't really care about the issues so long as the flip said what it said and/or was so invested that they would defend PSA no matter what, and it seems they were right.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think that in deciding to play ostrich in the face of the scandal, PSA calculated that most of its customer base was loyal and/or didn't really care about the issues so long as the flip said what it said and/or was so invested that they would defend PSA no matter what, and it seems they were right.

It’s a pretty good gig, having your customer base do your defense and marketing for you, while not expecting any degree of actual competence or ethics. It’s almost hard to blame PSA anymore when most of the hobby seems invested in allowing and defending literally any behavior, no matter how egregious. Why do things properly when their customer base expects and allows the opposite?

[Yoda]

To add insult to injury for the long lag time, their silly little blue holder is worthless and adds no value at all. When I receive one, the first thing I do is liberate my card and trash the blue turd.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

It’s a pretty good gig, having your customer base do your defense and marketing for you, while not expecting any degree of actual competence or ethics. It’s almost hard to blame PSA anymore when most of the hobby seems invested in allowing and defending literally any behavior, no matter how egregious. Why do things properly when their customer base expects and allows the opposite?

It's hard to imagine any other business (maybe other collectibles, dunno) where a scandal of this proportion would only enhance the market position of the company involved.

[Lorewalker]

Never ever underestimate the degree of denial, indifference and defending a human will do when you show them a little money. So many buy cards now for profit or appreciation. Greed is sadly at the basis of their motivation. It is easy for those of them to look the other way and not bite the hand that feeds them but to defend and rage.

Just wait until Snowman wakes up this afternoon to read the board and the comments. He might not drop F bombs but if ya think those other two defenders/pumpers got upset on Tues, you have not seen anything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

…..

[Lorewalker]

Oh. I was wrong. Snowman wasted no time going to the F bomb on the UJ Ruth thread. Today is gonna be a great one.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It isn't like Bazookas where there is a dotted line meant to be cut. There are perforations and obviously they are meant to be separated by hand, tearing along the perfs. I think it's that simple.

I guess this is where we disagree. I don't see perforations as something that must only be split apart by hand. In fact, I'd take it one step further and say that a "gem mint" copy of any card with perforations must be cut by a blade perfectly along the center of those perforations. Make the cut wrong, and your grades should suffer as a result. To each their own. But that would be my preference even to this day as a non 7-year old.

To be clear though, I am in agreement regarding the general viewpoint of PSA's incompetence here. They are wildly inconsistent and it's a shame. It really shouldn't be that difficult to choose a stance and stick to it.

As far as the authentication aspect goes, I don't think the criticism is warranted. It's not a grading service. They're not supposed to "grade the graders" with these. It's almost certainly just a team of near-minimum-wage workers who have been trained on how to spot a fake slab. They're probably sitting in the shipping and receiving department. These cards never even make it over to the grading room floor.

[G1911]

Bulletproof, any fraud, lie or incompetence is fine when your investors might profit.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

eBay is not performing the service you claimed; the seller ships it to PSA who does not look at the card, only the slab, performing the service. This is a fact.

Fair enough, they are providing (while requiring) the service rather than actually performing it. The overall point I was making remains the same.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Fair enough, they are providing (while requiring) the service rather than actually performing it. The overall point I was making remains the same.

+1 on that.

There will be a time in the not too distant future ebay puts a cost on this authentication of slabs. I would give about a nickel for that service but would expect change.
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