OMG PSA slabs blatantly altered Tiger Woods rookie, then it passes ebay program

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Ok, so it's PSA don't the inspection. Distinction without a difference. OP is still complaining about the wrong thing.

As the OP was factually correct and you were factually wrong, it seems your complaint was the one “about the wrong thing”. You might not agree with the complaint, but it’s at least valid and not “about the wrong thing”.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's another casualty of the program. Someone I know had several cards he shipped to the authenticator disappear after reaching the Santa Ana post office. He was told a very large bin of cards intended for PSA or whatever pseudonym they use for their address as authenticator was stolen. So that means lots of buyers didn't get their cards at all.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Here's another casualty of the program. Someone I know had several cards he shipped to the authenticator disappear after reaching the Santa Ana post office. He was told a very large bin of cards intended for PSA or whatever pseudonym they use for their address as authenticator was stolen. So that means lots of buyers didn't get their cards at all.

Who ended up taking the hit on the money?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Who ended up taking the hit on the money?

In my friend's case, he had an insurance policy against shipping losses. Otherwise I don't know.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by G1911

As the OP was factually correct and you were factually wrong, it seems your complaint was the one “about the wrong thing”. You might not agree with the complaint, but it’s at least valid and not “about the wrong thing”.

Sigh.

[Snapolit1]

Breaking news. . . nothing is perfect and people make mistakes. Film at 11.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Breaking news. . . nothing is perfect and people make mistakes. Film at 11.

Do you have any example of the good this has done? Has PSA found a single fake PSA slab to remove?

Doesn’t seem like a “nothing is perfect” so much as “this does nothing but delay and possibly lose your item while adding no benefit”.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Do you have any example of the good this has done? Has PSA found a single fake PSA slab to remove?

Doesn’t seem like a “nothing is perfect” so much as “this does nothing but delay and possibly lose your item while adding no benefit”.

I think on Blowout a poster stated he had heard of one such fake slab found, or claimed anyhow by PSA. Or perhaps it was here.

But hey, I am glad my Kawhi Leonard $500 rookie was just blessed, I am sure there was a real high chance that card slabbed a month ago by the seller could have been a fake slab.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think on Blowout a poster stated he had heard of one such fake slab found, or claimed anyhow by PSA. Or perhaps it was here.

But hey, I am glad my Kawhi Leonard $500 rookie was just blessed, I am sure there was a real high chance that card slabbed a month ago by the seller could have been a fake slab.

Awesome, one. That’s actually the highest total I’ve seen yet. This program isn’t doing anything but route cash to PSA to… authenticate the plastic holder (we all know what really matters and it ain’t the card). That people want to defend this as “not everything is perfect” tells you there is no real coherent argument for how this makes a lick of sense. The raw card version can be spun, but this is sillier than a purple sticker and clearly does nothing.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Awesome, one. That’s actually the highest total I’ve seen yet. This program isn’t doing anything but route cash to PSA to… authenticate the plastic holder (we all know what really matters and it ain’t the card). That people want to defend this as “not everything is perfect” tells you there is no real coherent argument for how this makes a lick of sense. The raw card version can be spun, but this is sillier than a purple sticker and clearly does nothing.

There is no way it is sillier than a purple sticker.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Awesome, one. That’s actually the highest total I’ve seen yet. This program isn’t doing anything but route cash to PSA to… authenticate the plastic holder (we all know what really matters and it ain’t the card). That people want to defend this as “not everything is perfect” tells you there is no real coherent argument for how this makes a lick of sense. The raw card version can be spun, but this is sillier than a purple sticker and clearly does nothing.

To repeat. I was involved helping someone who had a PSA 9 major rookie card in what was pretty clearly a fake slab. PSA instead of identifying it as such so he could get his money back from a major auction gave it a new cert number and reholdered it. I don't trust them to spot fakes. Certainly, during the period it was more of a problem (on certain cards, never across the board), they didn't issue any guidance to collectors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Awesome, one. That’s actually the highest total I’ve seen yet. This program isn’t doing anything but route cash to PSA to… authenticate the plastic holder (we all know what really matters and it ain’t the card). That people want to defend this as “not everything is perfect” tells you there is no real coherent argument for how this makes a lick of sense. The raw card version can be spun, but this is sillier than a purple sticker and clearly does nothing.

But you and I are the heavies for opposing a program aimed at weeding out fraud. LOL.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Breaking news. . . nothing is perfect and people make mistakes. Film at 11.

You should think the worst in people to get along here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Breaking news. . . nothing is perfect and people make mistakes. Film at 11.

Says a man who has never posted a complaint, surely.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

As the OP was factually correct and you were factually wrong, it seems your complaint was the one “about the wrong thing”. You might not agree with the complaint, but it’s at least valid and not “about the wrong thing”.

And yet, in the post right above your reply, OP agreed with me as factually correct about his post. Go figure.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

And yet, in the post right above your reply, OP agreed with me as factually correct about his post. Go figure.

eBay is not performing the service you claimed; the seller ships it to PSA who does not look at the card, only the slab, performing the service. This is a fact.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

eBay is not performing the service you claimed; the seller ships it to PSA who does not look at the card, only the slab, performing the service. This is a fact.

Fair enough, they are providing (while requiring) the service rather than actually performing it. The overall point I was making remains the same.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Fair enough, they are providing (while requiring) the service rather than actually performing it. The overall point I was making remains the same.

+1 on that.

There will be a time in the not too distant future ebay puts a cost on this authentication of slabs. I would give about a nickel for that service but would expect change.
.

[Snowman]

I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.

Why am I not shocked you would cut out a perforated card that is meant to be removed by hand?

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=Snowman;2259601]I'm not so sure that it isn't accurately graded to begin with. I've seen multiple cards that typically have perforations get slabbed with numeric grades on them despite being cut with a blade just like this one was. The cards came in sheets that were intended to be removed from those sheets by the owners. Why should it matter whether someone chooses to tear it out by hand along the perforations or with a pair of scissors? I remember collecting these SI cards as a kid. I cut them out with scissors at the age of 7. Does that mean I "altered" my cards? Some of the hobby "rules" just seem completely arbitrary to me. I just don't get it. Surely there are things worth worrying about. I don't understand why this is one of those things.[/QUOTEI

It isn't like Bazookas where there is a dotted line meant to be cut. There are perforations and obviously they are meant to be separated by hand, tearing along the perfs. I think it's that simple.

[G1911]

Let’s assume that trimming is arbitrary and doesn’t matter. Let’s assume a cut line and a perforated line are the same thing. It doesn’t make any difference.

Whether or not one agrees with a grading standard, and I would think the vast majority disagree on some point or other, the problem, as any reasonable person would be able to discern, is that the grader routinely ignores their own standards or are too incompetent to notice the obvious that violates their own standards. It is not PSA’s policy to number grade perforated cards trimmed below the perforations.

The condition evaluation scale is, obviously, arbitrary. Whether and how much trimming a card, creasing it, or pushing a pin through it should detract is arbitrary. That it is arbitrary does not mean the grader, who is allegedly an expert, should simply ignore their own standards they have set whenever they don’t notice the obvious or just don’t feel like it.

The distractions, mental gymnastics, and obvious bullshit the PSA shills have to come up with these days is crazy. As usual, there are as many or more people defending the corruption or incompetence than there are those who question it. The hobby will remain a cesspool of crooks and their enablers as people are obviously vested in defending almost any fraud and/or incompetence. To question it would risk devaluing the precious slabs, and when push comes to shove it’s all about profit over honesty, logic, common sense, or integrity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think that in deciding to play ostrich in the face of the scandal, PSA calculated that most of its customer base was loyal and/or didn't really care about the issues so long as the flip said what it said and/or was so invested that they would defend PSA no matter what, and it seems they were right.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think that in deciding to play ostrich in the face of the scandal, PSA calculated that most of its customer base was loyal and/or didn't really care about the issues so long as the flip said what it said and/or was so invested that they would defend PSA no matter what, and it seems they were right.

It’s a pretty good gig, having your customer base do your defense and marketing for you, while not expecting any degree of actual competence or ethics. It’s almost hard to blame PSA anymore when most of the hobby seems invested in allowing and defending literally any behavior, no matter how egregious. Why do things properly when their customer base expects and allows the opposite?