Babe Ruth single-signed baseball... but with TTA Authentication

[travrosty]

Jake, you figured it out.

if its a abc or xyz guesstimate, then its always good in the minds of some who only care about the company name on the cert, if it's not then its always bad. the actual autograph is of little consequence anymore.

they know no more about ruth than anyone else. Ruth's autograph has been corrupted beyond repair by all these certifications, many which look the same as the certifications by the companies they don't like and always call fake.

Switch the two balls around that i showed with the authentications, and the "good" one would still be fabulous and the tta one still fake, just like it is right now only vice versa.

it's a shell game only there is no ball under any of the shells. so people don't bother looking under the shells anymore. if the shell says company ABC on it, then people will trust there is a ball under there, and any other name on the shell, they will call it bad, whether the company deserves the criticism or not.

Jake, the shells are glued down. You lose and the people on the inner circle with connections that are close to these companies win. And you will never be in that group.

[Splinte1941]

Oh, I've figured it out Travis. The entire thing is comical. I applaud the big two for understanding the market, cornering it, and then, as you correctly pointed out, making their COAs more valuable than the signatures they are rubber-stamping. It's total genius and as businessmen, they should be applauded. As authenticators, that's for someone else to decide.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

as businessmen, they should be applauded. As authenticators, that's for someone else to decide.

Large amounts of money spent on advertising is what helped PSA to corner the market. Then Jimmy Spence left PSA but he benefited from the money that had already been spent on advertising.
As authenticators they are no better, and maybe worse, than the top dealers that I have listed here many times,,, Stinson, Gordon, Albersheim, Keating, Corcoran, Cariseo and Lelands and Alexander Autographs for auction houses. None of these I have named use third party authentication. They don't have to. They don't want to. They will dispute the myth that you have to have your stuff authenticated by a TPA in order to sell it. I would also trust the opinion of Ron Keurajian over any of the TPA's.
One of the TPA's just had two VERY high priced single signed baseballs removed from ebay despite COA's.
Collectors continue to make the mistake of rating the TPA's as the best in the business, that if you don't have a TPA cert. with an item, you can never be sure if it is good. Well I have listed many items here over the years where that is not the case. I am aware of many more items where that is not the case. (anyone thinking of Donavon now?).
If collectors stay with good dealers and don't keep trying to look for those great deals (we have seen that lately here) then maybe we can help clean up the hobby.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by richardsimon

large amounts of money spent on advertising is what helped psa to corner the market. Then jimmy spence left psa but he benefited from the money that had already been spent on advertising.
As authenticators they are no better, and maybe worse, than the top dealers that i have listed here many times,,, stinson, gordon, albersheim, keating, corcoran, cariseo and lelands and alexander autographs for auction houses. None of these i have named use third party authentication. They don't have to. They don't want to. They will dispute the myth that you have to have your stuff authenticated by a tpa in order to sell it. I would also trust the opinion of ron keurajian over any of the tpa's.
One of the tpa's just had two very high priced single signed baseballs removed from ebay despite coa's.
Collectors continue to make the mistake of rating the tpa's as the best in the business, that if you don't have a tpa cert. With an item, you can never be sure if it is good. Well i have listed many items here over the years where that is not the case. I am aware of many more items where that is not the case. (anyone thinking of donavon now?).
If collectors stay with good dealers and don't keep trying to look for those great deals (we have seen that lately here) then maybe we can help clean up the hobby.

like

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Large amounts of money spent on advertising is what helped PSA to corner the market. Then Jimmy Spence left PSA but he benefited from the money that had already been spent on advertising.
As authenticators they are no better, and maybe worse, than the top dealers that I have listed here many times,,, Stinson, Gordon, Albersheim, Keating, Corcoran, Cariseo and Lelands and Alexander Autographs for auction houses. None of these I have named use third party authentication. They don't have to. They don't want to. They will dispute the myth that you have to have your stuff authenticated by a TPA in order to sell it. I would also trust the opinion of Ron Keurajian over any of the TPA's.
One of the TPA's just had two VERY high priced single signed baseballs removed from ebay despite COA's.
Collectors continue to make the mistake of rating the TPA's as the best in the business, that if you don't have a TPA cert. with an item, you can never be sure if it is good. Well I have listed many items here over the years where that is not the case. I am aware of many more items where that is not the case. (anyone thinking of Donavon now?).
If collectors stay with good dealers and don't keep trying to look for those great deals (we have seen that lately here) then maybe we can help clean up the hobby.

agreed, they are resting on the laurels that were bought for them, and just because an item does not have a golden ticket loa from the top 2, doesnt mean that its a fake, like they want you to believe.

i also trust some of the good dealers and guys with experience over some anonymous person who i dont even know the name of who might have glanced at my autograph for a few sparse seconds, and just because their company name is whoopdedoo and whoopdedoo#2 I am suppose to be impressed?

they can start by telling me exactly who looked at the autograph, maybe showing a few exemplars when asked, admitting a mistake when they make one and making it right, but they do not.

[Big Dave]

+1

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Jake, you figured it out.

if its a abc or xyz guesstimate, then its always good in the minds of some who only care about the company name on the cert, if it's not then its always bad. the actual autograph is of little consequence anymore.

I'm not sure where you can point to anybody saying "I don't need to look at the auto, it's PSA/DNA and/or JSA."

There are a helluva lot of us willing to dismiss a TTA certed ball without looking at the sig, though. For me, PSA or JSA means I will look at the auto. TTA, Morales, AAU, many others, I'm done. They may (in a snowball's chance) be real, but I'm done. Not worth my time.

Originally Posted by travrosty

they know no more about ruth than anyone else. Ruth's autograph has been corrupted beyond repair by all these certifications, many which look the same as the certifications by the companies they don't like and always call fake.

Switch the two balls around that i showed with the authentications, and the "good" one would still be fabulous and the tta one still fake, just like it is right now only vice versa.

You're right about Ruth. The forgers have practiced a lot with his auto, as the prices are too good not to have.

Originally Posted by travrosty

it's a shell game only there is no ball under any of the shells. so people don't bother looking under the shells anymore. if the shell says company ABC on it, then people will trust there is a ball under there, and any other name on the shell, they will call it bad, whether the company deserves the criticism or not.

Jake, the shells are glued down. You lose and the people on the inner circle with connections that are close to these companies win. And you will never be in that group.

Again, where can you point to examples of net54 members blindly accepting any cert? Maybe there are numerous examples, but I don't see them. You can continue to get pissed off that people are dismissing this auto because of a non-alphabet cert, but nothing you say will stop me from doing so.

And here's the thing: most (not all) of the PSA and JSA certed autos I've seen have been legit. Keep posting counter-examples here; I enjoy and learn when you do. But most are legit. That means when I see their cert, I look closer. But there are other certs with which I don't bother looking closer. This ball has one of them.

[Fredskinz]

Didn't think I would have started World War III with my little Babe Ruth post... Sorry all... Newbie mistake!

My take is this ... I have a Rolex watch and I also have a fake Rolex watch... When I wear the fake one, I don't care that it's fake... It runs, it looks nice and no one knows the difference... It still functions as a time piece and a fashion piece even though its fake... But when I buy memorabilia, it's not so black and white... I personally can't enjoy a fake ball or jersey that is supposed to be authentic... Its functionality is solely based on its authenticity... Therefore, due to the current state of the hobby, I HAVE to use these certificates as some sort of guide, because I just can't bring myseld to proudly display a fake Babe Ruth autograph..

Being new here, I don't know if members have certain agendas or what have you, I'm just glad that there is a forum to bounce these sort of questions off of other interested collectors...

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Fredskinz

Didn't think I would have started World War III with my little Babe Ruth post... Sorry all... Newbie mistake!

My take is this ... I have a Rolex watch and I also have a fake Rolex watch... When I wear the fake one, I don't care that it's fake... It runs, it looks nice and no one knows the difference... It still functions as a time piece and a fashion piece even though its fake... But when I buy memorabilia, it's not so black and white... I personally can't enjoy a fake ball or jersey that is supposed to be authentic... Its functionality is solely based on its authenticity... Therefore, due to the current state of the hobby, I HAVE to use these certificates as some sort of guide, because I just can't bring myseld to proudly display a fake Babe Ruth autograph..

Being new here, I don't know if members have certain agendas or what have you, I'm just glad that there is a forum to bounce these sort of questions off of other interested collectors...

No worries. You didn't start anything that hasn't been going on for quite awhile. You just need to know it's not a simple as having an autograph authenticated by the big two authentication groups. They make mistakes, and although I don't believe those mistakes are malicious, they do occur. As for judging the Cert and not the autograph, all I can say is that I would not look any further at an autograph if I saw it was authenticated by the J. Dimaggio company and I don't think anyone else here would either. How that applies to some of the other companies out there is for you to decide.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Fredskinz

Didn't think I would have started World War III with my little Babe Ruth post... Sorry all... Newbie mistake!

My take is this ... I have a Rolex watch and I also have a fake Rolex watch... When I wear the fake one, I don't care that it's fake... It runs, it looks nice and no one knows the difference... It still functions as a time piece and a fashion piece even though its fake... But when I buy memorabilia, it's not so black and white... I personally can't enjoy a fake ball or jersey that is supposed to be authentic... Its functionality is solely based on its authenticity... Therefore, due to the current state of the hobby, I HAVE to use these certificates as some sort of guide, because I just can't bring myseld to proudly display a fake Babe Ruth autograph..

Being new here, I don't know if members have certain agendas or what have you, I'm just glad that there is a forum to bounce these sort of questions off of other interested collectors...

Yes, please bounce away! That is what these forums are for.

I totally get what you are saying about peace of mind when it comes to collectibles. With autographs, if you didn't see the person sign it, than authenticity will always be a percentage. Other people get paid to give an opinion, and you need to figure out whose (if anyone's) opinion might add value or not, and then educate yourself on the item and signature as much as you can. This last part is the only thing that can give you true peace of mind.

And, as has been pointed out, that is easier said than done with Ruth. The fakers have gotten really good with his auto, unfortunately.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Maybe FredSkinz can reveal his real name here for us.

[Fredskinz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Maybe FredSkinz can reveal his real name here for us.

Real name is Fred... Redskins fan since birth, thus Fredskinz

[mr2686]

Hey Fred, were you around when John Riggins was playing? Man he was a tough son of a gun. Always liked watching him play.

[jgmp123]

Great Post FredSkinz.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Fredskinz

Didn't think I would have started World War III with my little Babe Ruth post... Sorry all... Newbie mistake!

My take is this ... I have a Rolex watch and I also have a fake Rolex watch... When I wear the fake one, I don't care that it's fake... It runs, it looks nice and no one knows the difference... It still functions as a time piece and a fashion piece even though its fake... But when I buy memorabilia, it's not so black and white... I personally can't enjoy a fake ball or jersey that is supposed to be authentic... Its functionality is solely based on its authenticity... Therefore, due to the current state of the hobby, I HAVE to use these certificates as some sort of guide, because I just can't bring myseld to proudly display a fake Babe Ruth autograph..

Being new here, I don't know if members have certain agendas or what have you, I'm just glad that there is a forum to bounce these sort of questions off of other interested collectors...

Fred, you hit the nail on the head. I recently purchased a signed photo. The signature itself I'm told is questionable, however, as a collector of this player, the photograph itself was too good for me to pass up. I've never seen another like it and it came (I'm told) directly from his estate. Good enough for me.

If I were to receive PSA or JSA COA's on it, great. If not, I'm still happy with the photo as it's probably one of a kind. I'll never know if the guy signed it or not, regardless of COA's, but I can sleep at night knowing the photo is an original and unique. I collect vintage photos, so that's my angle. I probably wouldn't feel the same way about a vintage baseball that was forged, but that's just my preference.