How are the deceased still signing?

[RichardSimon]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hank-Greenbe...item519eb8337d

idiotic ,,, this half a Greenberg sold for twice what a whole card should sell for.

AND

I am seeing cards listed for $50,$60 and $70 on ebay. With $40 charge from Leaf, $x charge from a TPA and ebay fees, who is kidding who here. Though I will concede that the vast majority of these cards are priced much higher than that.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I am seeing cards listed for $50,$60 and $70 on ebay. With $40 charge from Leaf, $x charge from a TPA and ebay fees, who is kidding who here. Though I will concede that the vast majority of these cards are priced much higher than that.

There's also the distinct possibility that some of these things have sold for what they should sell for, and someone took a bath on the fees to construct them in the first place. I've bought whole collections of PSA slabbed autographed cards before where the amount I paid for the collection was less than the cost of the slabbing, and then turned around and sold many of them for less than what the slabbing would cost, but still turned a profit. I feel sorry for whatever collector sunk so much money into all that plastic in the first place, but it doesn't always ensure that the value of the card is increased by at least the cost of the slab.

On the other hand, maybe some of these sellers have come to their senses and are looking to get those monstrosities out of their collections asap

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

On the other hand, maybe some of these sellers have come to their senses and are looking to get those monstrosities out of their collections asap

Lance - you use the right word when you say seller but you also use the word collections and I think the right word there might be accumulations.
I don't think anyone collects these things the same way the members of this board collect autographs. They accumulate them hoping that the greater fool theory is still alive and well when they decide the time has come to sell.
As we all know the members of this board collect autographs for an entirely different reason.

[travrosty]

people see 1 of 1 and they get crazy, a false scarcity, and i have had a heck of a time convincing people that these cuts exist outside of these cards too and don't cost but 1/10 of what they are offering them for.

they say in return "yeah, but those cuts arent in a 1 of 1 card like this, it's topps, it's upper deck."

I say back to them "so what?"

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

people see 1 of 1 and they get crazy, a false scarcity, and i have had a heck of a time convincing people that these cuts exist outside of these cards too and don't cost but 1/10 of what they are offering them for.

they say in return "yeah, but those cuts arent in a 1 of 1 card like this, it's topps, it's upper deck."

I say back to them "so what?"

But do you collect baseball cards, too? Or at least understand why people do?

I can find a photo of Mickey Mantle in 1952 and write a nice bio and some stats on the back. But for some reason, people pay crazy amounts for the same thing made by Topps. Mine is scarcer, too!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

But do you collect baseball cards, too? Or at least understand why people do?

I can find a photo of Mickey Mantle in 1952 and write a nice bio and some stats on the back. But for some reason, people pay crazy amounts for the same thing made by Topps. Mine is scarcer, too!

It is the artificially created shortages that is the thing that is just plain stupid.
The shortages at first were created by the card companies complete with forgeries and badly cut autographs, now you can create your own ridiculous artificial shortage with any cut autograph and a technicolor plastic tomb.
"Wow, it is 1/1 with a technicolor plastic tomb",,, "wow, I just got to have that plastic tomb with the 1/1 Bob Feller, it will always be worth more than I paid."
Someone putting a plastic technicolor tomb around an autograph, IMHO, is not creating a baseball card.
That someone has fallen for the Leaf hype and is a gambler, not a serious collector of autographs or cards.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

It is the artificially created shortages that is the thing that is just plain stupid.
The shortages at first were created by the card companies complete with forgeries and badly cut autographs, now you can create your own ridiculous artificial shortage with any cut autograph and a technicolor plastic tomb.
"Wow, it is 1/1 with a technicolor plastic tomb",,, "wow, I just got to have that plastic tomb with the 1/1 Bob Feller, it will always be worth more than I paid."
Someone putting a plastic technicolor tomb around an autograph, IMHO, is not creating a baseball card.
That someone has fallen for the Leaf hype and is a gambler, not a serious collector of autographs or cards.

We are in total agreement about what Leaf is doing, and we agree that many of these cuts are ugly, forgeries, and/or a shameful enterprise (when cutting up a letter or contract for the sig alone).

However, when a company does it right, these can be aesthetically pleasing, which does add value for many of us.

Case in point, I think I paid 32 buck for this Ted Lyons card for my HOF auto collection. That is more than a simple 3x5 would run me, but I like the photo, the registered White Sox trademark, and the overall layout. I don't really care about the numbering either way, but there may be some out there collecting the set. Who knows.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

But do you collect baseball cards, too? Or at least understand why people do?

I can find a photo of Mickey Mantle in 1952 and write a nice bio and some stats on the back. But for some reason, people pay crazy amounts for the same thing made by Topps. Mine is scarcer, too!

because autographs arent the same as baseball cards, the autograph wasnt made by you or me, it was made by the athlete. putting it in a little card holder and adding 10X the value, why?

it's stupid.

its not a leaf autograph, or a roste autograph, its an autograph of mickey mantle.


its the pricing that is crazy and the way they mangle the autographs. the will cut an autograph from a photo or check, and put it in a holder, then charge more than what the signed photo or check was worth. way more too.

if the lyons was 300 dollars, would you buy it? 5 dollar autographs like the cut max schmeling routinely get listed for 300. ridiculous and insulting.


if someone likes collecting, small portable autographs, they can collect index cards or cut autograph on paper. why pay 2500 dollars or more for a rocky marciano upper deck 1 of 1, when a cut or index card of marciano can be had for 400 dollars?

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if someone likes collecting, small portable autographs, they can collect index cards or cut autograph on paper. why pay 2500 dollars or more for a rocky marciano upper deck 1 of 1, when a cut or index card of marciano can be had for 400 dollars?

People also like how the autograph is presented. Instead of just having a white index card, they like how the cut signature card has a picture of the player and the team logo. This is were the value comes from between a blank index card and a cut signature card. Topps pays the players association, the league and if the player is deceased, his estate, millions of dollars to use that players likeness and the teams logo on the card, that is where a lot of the value comes from in these cut signature cards.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

because autographs arent the same as baseball cards, the autograph wasnt made by you or me, it was made by the athlete. putting it in a little card holder and adding 10X the value, why?

it's stupid.

its not a leaf autograph, or a roste autograph, its an autograph of mickey mantle.


its the pricing that is crazy and the way they mangle the autographs. the will cut an autograph from a photo or check, and put it in a holder, then charge more than what the signed photo or check was worth. way more too.

if the lyons was 300 dollars, would you buy it? 5 dollar autographs like the cut max schmeling routinely get listed for 300. ridiculous and insulting.


if someone likes collecting, small portable autographs, they can collect index cards or cut autograph on paper. why pay 2500 dollars or more for a rocky marciano upper deck 1 of 1, when a cut or index card of marciano can be had for 400 dollars?

You didnt answer my question. Do you collect baseball cards?

If you only collects autos, then I can see your point of view (which is not the same as agreeing with it).