Dmitri Young got some PSA love...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

All of mine are raw. None of them have numbers. Many of them HAD numbers, many up to 8's and 9's.

I will admit to once buying a PSA 10 McGwire rookie for $1800 and flipping it for $3600. I enjoyed the money slightly less that I enjoyed the fact that some schmuck had paid me that much (probably a similar thought to that of the guy who sold it to me).

Doug

Hey, don't feel bad about liking money - everyone likes money, except for that baby in the commercial.

That is gutsy, de-slabbing 9's

[travrosty]

i love de=slabbing. who needs it, we know what condition the card is in, we have eyes. its the same card whether in a slab or out of a slab.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

i love de=slabbing. who needs it, we know what condition the card is in, we have eyes. its the same card whether in a slab or out of a slab.

Sometimes grading companies catch things we collectors don't. SGC has saved me 10's of thousands of dollars over the years and BVG has saved me some money too. I like having their second sets of eyes looking at my raw purchases. I will only buy expensive raw cards with a guarantee of a numerical grade by one of the top 3 grading companies. It works for me but if you hate grading.....God love you....it's ok. Do what makes you happy and comfortable.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

That is gutsy, de-slabbing 9's

I would have no hesitation to remove a 10 from it's slab, if I had one, I only buy cards for prices I like, and for prices I like, I like raw.

The 10 McGwire was a fluke purchase based on an obviously impending bubble in the market. I only owned it for 4 or 5 days.

Doug

[drc]

In my opinion, 10s should have better than 50/50 centering.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by drc

In my opinion, 10s should have better than 50/50 centering.

Laughing out loud.

In all 3 dimensions.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Laughing out loud.

In all 3 dimensions.

Me too...I was thinking something like 50/60 centering!!

[carrigansghost]

Easy now, my last company tried to make a 365 degree wheel....even rounder. Gotta love Boeing.

Rawn

[michael3322]

In the interest of tying up the loose ends, and in case this thread can be useful going forward...

PSA's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.psacard.com/services/psa_...tandards.chtml

BGS's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.beckett.com/estore/helpsy...x?ArticleId=47

On the topic of centering, this is from the BGS website:

Pristine 10
Centering: 50/50 all around on front. 60/40 or better on back.

Gem Mint 9.5
Centering: 50/50 one way, 55/45 the other on front. 65/35 or better on back


SGC's Grading Criteria are online:
http://www.sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

On the topic of centering, this is from the SGC website...

Grade Quality Description
100 PRISTINE A "virtually flawless" card. 50/50 centering, crisp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear under magnification.

98 GEM 10 55/45 or better centering, sharp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear. A slight print spot visible under close scrutiny is allowable if it does not detract from the aesthetics of the card.

[glynparson]

Almost everyone that sells Psa cards or has sold PSA cards for years knows you can get bumps. Guess what you can at SGC too. Its an opinion of course it can change and vary from person to person. Also 10 does not mean perfect that is where some of you are having problems. I have never seen a perfect regular issue tops card they all have something wrong. Also someone complained about rough cuts for the millionth time i will state beckett is the only grading company that downgrades for rough cuts. There are so many things to legitametly bash about grading, (favors, grading fake or altered cards).

[Clutch-Hitter]

It should not be possible for a nine to increase to a ten. It's much different than a lesser grade increasing to a higher grade, but never to a ten. The card in question was reviewed multiple times and each time the grader saw a flaw. Therefore, for it to increase to a ten, the flaw(s) vanished while the card was sealed inside the case or the grading standards were lowered for that card.

However, I am one who likes grading nonetheless and have used each of the three, PSA more so and will continue.

[glynparson]

under psa guidelines a 10 can have a flaw
10 does not equal flawless, you are wrong if you think this

[travrosty]

but how can you have a ragged edge on a 54 topps hank aaron and have it be a 10?

even though all those cards have ragged edges, i thought a 10 would have to have straight edges, even though none of those would qualify for a 10, then so what? does there have to be a 10? like he said there is no ten valenzuela, or nolan ryan. how can a ragged edge be a ten, the same for the OPC gretzky 10 that sold for 90,000 dollars, had chipping on the edges. how can that be?

that's why it is so subjective on psa's part and so open to their whim of the day. and that's why it stinks.

[packs]

That's the way the card was produced. There is no flaw. That's why it can be a 10.

[Clutch-Hitter]

I don't think anything is entirely flawless and each "thing" would have to be defined in its own way. The three companies were careful to qualify flawless with "virtually" or something similar. But without reading too deep into it, a ten seems to carry an implication of flawlessness. Now I don't even know what I'm talking about. Just think a ten carries too much value...

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by packs

That's the way the card was produced. There is no flaw. That's why it can be a 10.

Couldn't the same be said for an off-center or mis-cut card? I'd pay more for a card that does not have a rough cut vs one that did all other variables being equal.

[packs]

The rough cut effects a sizeable portion of the overall production of cards, at least from my observations. I think it's a different situation than an off center card.

[doug.goodman]

...Also 10 does not mean perfect that is where some of you are having problems...

Oh, I see, my mistake.

So, just a question to make sure I understand correctly, if I have a 10 that isn't perfect, and another card that actually is perfect, what would the second card grade?

Would it get...

Hold on...

Wait for it...

An eleven?

Raw-ly yours,
Doug

[travrosty]

what if they found a 54 aaron just like that one only with a perfect cut right edge. what's that, an 11? who can say one doesn't exist? does the opc gretzky with the rough cut edge that got a 10 and sold for a bajillion dollars make it as a 10 because no other opc rookie gretzky's have a straight edge and no flaking? looks like straight edge ones exist as proof below.

If one comes up with no flaking, I guess we have an 11 on our hands.

so the flaky, rough edge gets a 10 and this other one gets a 9.5 with a straght edge.

what's the deal here? why did the psa graded gretzky get a 10 again?

grading stinks.

[glynparson]

ROUGH CUTS DO NOT LOWER THE GRADE ACCEPT FOR BECKETT. THAT IS THERE POSITION AND I AGREE WITH IT> THE GRETZKY YOU SHOW IS SHEET CUT HENCE THE NO ROUGH EDGE. ALSO 10 DOES NOT EQUAL PERFECT. We need to hold grading companies accountable for the correct things. These would be grading of altered or counterfeirt cards and the benefits given to big submitters and friends of the graders, and yes I do believe this happens.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

ROUGH CUTS DO NOT LOWER THE GRADE ACCEPT FOR BECKETT. THAT IS THERE POSITION AND I AGREE WITH IT> THE GRETZKY YOU SHOW IS SHEET CUT HENCE THE NO ROUGH EDGE. ALSO 10 DOES NOT EQUAL PERFECT. We need to hold grading companies accountable for the correct things. These would be grading of altered or counterfeirt cards and the benefits given to big submitters and friends of the graders, and yes I do believe this happens.

Glyn, hush, we must not speak of such things.

[travrosty]

if 10 does not equal perfect, then what does an absolute perfect card deserve for a grade? an 11?

to have a ragged edge gretzky get the same grade as a smooth edge does not make any sense to me. to me, ten is suppose to mean perfect. a ragged, or chipped edging shouldn't get a 10, even if that's how all the cards in that set were made. sheet cut, not sheet cut, doesn't matter. a 10 card should have perfect centering, sharp corners and edges, with no raggedness, no chipping, no creases, no blemishes. That's a 10. otherwise create a 9.5. psa instituted half grades, but not a 9.5, so it goes from 9 to 10. and a ragged edge card like the gretzky or aaron gets a 10? grading is way too subjective adn up to the whim of the authenticator, that can increase a cards value by 10 times if they feel good that day, and not if they get out of the wrong side of the bed, it stinks.