Was I Shilled??

[calvindog]

The auction house fraudsters are reading this thread and laughing at some of the idiotic comments here. For real.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The auction house fraudsters are reading this thread and laughing at some of the idiotic comments here. For real.

They don't have time to read this thread. They're too busy shilling BINs on eBay.

[calvindog]

Paul, being smugly ignorant is nothing to be proud of.

Let me explain to you how someone like you gets defrauded by certain auction houses. You don't put ceiling bids in and assume you're not being shilled -- when in fact, the auction house employees/principals know that you collect signed prewar cards. And they know your bidding history from prior auctions and have a fair idea how much you'll be willing to spend on a card you want. They see your bids in on some of the cards you collect. They know (or believe they know) what they think the card is worth -- or what they want it to sell for. So they put a bid in above your bid. They assume you'll top it -- and you will because you want the card. They then top you -- and you may or may not top their shill bid. At the end of the night, they sometimes get stuck with cards (and often times will go to the underbidder and offer the card) but usually they don't. You pull out a cigar and pour yourself a cognac, thinking you won the card and were smart about not getting shilled. Guess again.

[jhs5120]

Not to be completely OT, but I was extremely disappointed when my $1,200 snipe was outmatched. I hate it when people find all my bargains!!!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Paul, being smugly ignorant is nothing to be proud of.

Let me explain to you how someone like you gets defrauded by certain auction houses. You don't put ceiling bids in and assume you're not being shilled -- when in fact, the auction house employees/principals know that you collect signed prewar cards. And they know your bidding history from prior auctions and have a fair idea how much you'll be willing to spend on a card you want. They see your bids in on some of the cards you collect. They know (or believe they know) what they think the card is worth -- or what they want it to sell for. So they put a bid in above your bid. They assume you'll top it -- and you will because you want the card. They then top you -- and you may or may not top their shill bid. At the end of the night, they sometimes get stuck with cards (and often times will go to the underbidder and offer the card) but usually they don't. You pull out a cigar and pour yourself a cognac, thinking you won the card and were smart about not getting shilled. Guess again.

Actually, what happened last time I bid in an auction for a signed card was a little different. I was bidding on this sweet signed Larry Doyle T206. When the bidding reached $200, there was a knock at my door. There were two men in dark suits and sunglasses there. Before I knew it, they had me pinned down on the floor, and they injected me with a powerful sedative. They propped me up at my computer, and started placing bids on all sorts of things I would never bid on -- 1957 Topps partial sets; 1970s Kelloggs issues; Drake's Cakes unopened boxes of Ring Dings with Mattingly and McGwire on the back. It was terrifying. By the time they left, I had fortunately been outbid on everything except the Doyle, which I won for $200. I pulled out a cigar and craved a sniff of cognac. But do you think I'd bid in that auction again? Guess again.

Fortunately we have you to save us from the dreaded auction house defrauders, who torment us when we win auctions for prices we are happy to pay. But who will defend us from the Men In Black when they knock on the door? Who will make us feel safe in our homes again?

[calvindog]

Paul, you're allegedly a lawyer aren't you? That means you allegedly understand the law, right? Why so happy to be a fraud victim? Think of all that you could do with that extra money you're losing. You could pay for CLE classes.

[T206Collector]

You're like the vegetarian who asks me, "Why do you enjoy eating dead flesh?"

Fraud has many flavors. Some of them taste good with a good cognac and a cigar.

Shill bidding that resembles a hidden reserve is not something I choose to care about.

I really don't think if we stopped all the shilling in the world that the prices of cards would go down. If anything, they would be less available because sellers would be less inclined to consign their items.

Fortunately I don't have to pay for CLE, so no worries, I will still keep my license to practice the law in the same great state of New York that you practice in. But, if I ever get arrested for fraud, I'll be sure and look you up to defend me against an overreaching government.

[calvindog]

No offense, I've seen your collection -- you can't afford me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are only two ways that I know of to control shill bidding, and I don't see either as likely to happen: people stop bidding in auctions suspected of shill bidding; or a governmental enforcement action.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are only two ways that I know of to control shill bidding, and I don't see either as likely to happen: people stop bidding in auctions suspected of shill bidding; or a governmental enforcement action.

Believe me, one indictment won't stop it either. There needs to be a belief by auction house principals that there will be ramifications for their actions, not just a rare bit of enforcement of the law.