Reasons to agree with DAN McKEE....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

I pick the blurry one .

Correct. You win the scissors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What "provenance" suggests the Wagner 8 is hand cut aside from the Piedmont back?

[ullmandds]

I think the fact that there are images out there of the wagner before it was cut to it's current size and shape is all of the proof that is needed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pete, as I recall the before photos were pretty grainy and inconclusive, but in any event they at best would prove that the card was trimmed, right? They wouldn't speak to whether the original was an oversize card from a pack, or one from a sheet. Let me ask it a different way, how do we know that the Conlon Plank is from the same sheet as the Gretzky Wagner, I have heard that mentioned a couple of times now but don't know the background.

[ullmandds]

I believe the Gretzky wagner...and the current p 150 plank were from the same sheet originally.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I believe the Gretzky wagner...and the current p 150 plank were from the same sheet originally.

You have to be kidding....aren't you ? ?

Because, if you think the "current PIEDMONT 150 Plank" is the Wagner sheet-mate that Charlie Conlon acquired from Bill Mastro back in the mid-1980's......
that was graded (circa 2009) by PSA as AUTHENTIC....and now SGC has given it a numerical grade....then we have real trouble right here in River City.


TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pete, as I recall the before photos were pretty grainy and inconclusive, but in any event they at best would prove that the card was trimmed, right? They wouldn't speak to whether the original was an oversize card from a pack, or one from a sheet.

We know this from statements by those involved. This is no longer a secret. There is a lot of good information about this subject in 'The Card'.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let me ask it a different way, how do we know that the Conlon Plank is from the same sheet as the Gretzky Wagner, I have heard that mentioned a couple of times now but don't know the background.

I'm also curious about this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill Hughes said PSA knew it was trimmed, but who can vouch for his credibility? Bill Mastro has steadfastly denied it.

[theuclakid]

Ted, although your presentation of the evidence for the theory that the Plank could not possibly have a factory cut Piedmont 150 factory back is intriguing, a jury probably could never attain a unanimous vote as to its authenticity....there is no conclusive proof, yet.....thus I still side with the grading company as they have seen the card in hand.....SGC are the experts or as close as there is, correct? SGC GAVE THEIR OPINION....I also suspect most people who could afford a million dollars or more for a card are perfectly happy with the encapsulated card as is....as they are trusting the known provenance, authenticating and encapsulating process...there is no FINAL word yet on the Plank mystery, no matter how interesting or convincing....and I do agree with others that this card could sell for a big number.....Bruce Perry

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

We know this from statements by those involved. This is no longer a secret. There is a lot of good information about this subject in 'The Card'.



I'm also curious about this.

As one of a number of characters who were there in 1985 when Bill Mastro was shopping around the Gretzky Wagner (raw) in the George Washington Motor Lodge rooms
at Willow Grove, PA....I clearly recall that a PIEDMONT 150 Plank was spoken of as being part of the collection that Bill had acquired in Long Island, NY.

That day Bill was "touting" the Wagner, it was the talk of the Show that weekend. I saw the Wagner, I did not see the Plank. However, the secondary story was that a
"high grade" PIEDMONT Plank was included in this collection. And, the rumor circulating at the Willow Grove Show that weekend was that both Wagner and Plank were originally from the same (partial) sheet.

For many years, I wondered where that Plank went. Charlie Conlon and I did some great deals over the years at Willow Grove. We shared a lot of info regarding vintage
cards, but he never mentioned this Plank. When Charlie passed away in recent years, we found out that he had acquired the PIEDMONT Plank (Wagner's sheet-mate) in
a private deal with Bill back in the mid-1980's.

Hey guys, does a BB card "provenance" get any better than this ?


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have read lots about Alan Ray selling the Wagner to Mastro (through a Long Island card shop) but have never read that Alan Ray also had a Plank that he sold simultaneously. EDIT TO ADD If that's the case, that was quite a purchase by Mastro.