Reasons to agree with DAN McKEE....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

[atx840]

This is a very small sample size to state that no P150 Planks were factory cut. A few might have been, first run samplers or test prints.

I feel bad for the card though

[Cardboard Junkie]

In my humble opinion the plank mentioned does not deserve a numerical grade. dave.

[BleedinBlue]

I've still not held the card in my hand and need to defer to the experts who were convinced it was hand-cut before being swayed by the evidence that it was factory cut.

There was overwhelming evidence at one point that the earth was flat also.

[rdixon1208]

I thought about starting a new thread titled:

Reasons to disagree with Ted Zandikis' thread agreeing with Dan McKee's thread....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

I decided to just post on one of the threads that already existed instead.

[Runscott]

This Plank doesn't fit with any of the reasonable theories we currently have about the Plank. The theories we have were based on research, not on looking at the edges of a card under a magnifier. The theories could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, there's no monetary benefit to the theorists. Also, the card could have been hand-cut 100 years ago and the evidence worn away over time. Hard to say either way, but it's funny how people on both sides can be so absolutely certain that they are right.

Ted - thanks for sharing. Sorry to see the demeaning comments.

[Ronnie73]

I personally feel that the piedmont back Planks are all hand cut. The reason for it, I don't know but the theorys are interesting and possibly true. If the SGC numerical graded plank was hand cut from a sheet many many years ago and it was cut at exact size and the edges are properly aged, I can see how it would get a numerical grade. If there were documents stating the fact that all Piedmont Planks were hand cut, then it would have gotten an authentic grade. I know we all always say "buy the card and not the holder" but in this case, I believe the holder is going to sell the card at a much higher price than if the card was raw and believed to be hand cut which it still could be. Many now believe the Honus Wagner PSA 8 is hand cut but at its last sale, it wasn't a thought. Now that its a possibilty, would it still fetch the same price level? I do, unless its broken out of its case and regraded as authentic.

[frankbmd]

Corners have been scrambled and rotated.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Corners have been scrambled and rotated.

I pick the blurry one .

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

I pick the blurry one .

Correct. You win the scissors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What "provenance" suggests the Wagner 8 is hand cut aside from the Piedmont back?

[ullmandds]

I think the fact that there are images out there of the wagner before it was cut to it's current size and shape is all of the proof that is needed.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by atx840

I feel bad for the card though

Me too!

[ctownboy]

My question is and always has been this. If another T206 (say Harry Pattee) only had four known cards with a certain back and three of them were deemed hand cut, if a fourth were found and it looked factory cut, would it be graded and labeled as such or would it be deemed Authentic just like the other three?

My questions are, does the name on the front of the card, the owner and how much money is involved sway opinions in ways that a Harry Pattee owned by Joe Schmo wouldn't?

David

Edited to add this.

It seems to me that a lot of people think the Gretzky Wagner was cut from a sheet MANY years after the sheet was printed. Yet PSA graded it an 8 (or whatever). Now, if it was cut from a sheet and PSA had just graded it Authentic from the beginning, would people STILL want to pay $3 million dollars for it? Would OTHER Wagners be worth as much as they are now?

I doubt it for both questions.

The Gretzky Wagner seems to me to have the "all ships rise with the high tide" affect on the other Wagners. It sells for $1.5 million and the other Wagners increase when they sell. Gretzky Wagner sells for $2 million and all other Wagners increase when they sell. Gretzky Wagner sells for $3 million and all other Wagners increase when they sell.

This seems like a house of cards thing to me. Regrade the Gretzky Wagner and if it comes back as Authentic then it isn't a $3 million dollar card. If that happens then the next highest graded Wagner (a five?) wouldn't be a $2 million dollar card and so on down the line.

In short, take the Gretzky Wagner from the top of the heap and everything under it would have to be re-evaluated, re-examined and probably revalued.

If this Plank remains graded and sells for a high price then I can see ALL Planks going up in value and especially the hand cut cards graded as Authentic.

But that is just my opinion and what do I know??????

[Peter_Spaeth]

The same (somewhat circular) logic used to defend the Plank (SGC saw it up close so they must be right) should also apply to the Gretzky Wagner, but it seems a higher percentage of people think the Plank deserves its numerical grade than think the Wagner does. It's unfortunate no information about provvenance has been made available regarding the Plank.

I remain skeptical; it seems odd to me that after all this time the first ever factory-cut Piedmont Plank would suddenly emerge in a high grade holder; and (I understand the limitations of scans) the lower left corner looks unnatural.

[CMIZ5290]

It has been made clear on this forum that alot of the people are aginst the plank and magee cards...what about opinions on the other somewhat uncommon card, the sgc 84 doyle? The bottom right corner is what concerns me especially with the grade given. Can't imagine psa giving that card a 7.....

[teetwoohsix]

Regarding the Piedmont Plank with the grade......since the other 3 are handcut is it of the assumption that this one was handcut as well and trimmed to the "factory cut" dimensions? I ask this because it is a legit card. I haven't formed a 100% opinion (on the cut) for the same reason as some others....have never seen it in person. It's hard for me to believe SGC would miss the trimming of such a notorious card- let alone the others as well- and risk damaging a great reputation in the hobby-deliberately or nefariously. This is why I want to believe SGC graded them as such.

I understand the way we come to our conclusions with T206, fact mixed with theory, but I also believe it could've been possible that X amount of sheets with P-150's with Plank on them could've been factory cut. We really don't know. Our opinions are mainly based on the other 3 P-150 Planks.

So, just trying to understand- does everyone who questions this card think it was handcut like the other 3 and trimmed to factory cut dimensions?

Sincerely, Clayton