Reasons to agree with DAN McKEE....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

[Gradedcardman]

Ted, I hope to gain this amount of knowledge to be included in some of these discussions. I look back and wonder where I would be with T206's had I not taken 15 years away from the hobby altogether.

[Leon]

The card is neither hand cut nor trimmed and is in the correct holder. Other theories are just that....theories.

[E93]

Ted my friend,
That sounds like a lot of conjecture. Seems to me the evidence is that 25% of the Piedmont Planks are factory cuts. Do you have a scan of the ALC shipping documents you mention?
JimB

[steve B]

I saved a scan from the auction.



The back writing does specify SC and philadelphia area and not philadelphia area. And I also think this could have some bearing on the Plank cards.

Since the piece is a partial page it isn't 100% certain that the cards were T206s, but it does show that during that period they were packing 1 per box of 10 for some areas, and 2 per box of 10 for philadelphia. The notation below is for military cards, so it's a sound idea that the top notes refer to T206s.

Another thing to note is that the packing priod for other than philadelphia territory was nearly a month, and the packing for philadelphia territory was only about 10 days.

Also the packing log fragment is from factory 649, which also separates it from Plank distribution.

I'm not convinced the card in question is handcut, but Teds theory does make some sense.

Steve B

Originally Posted by E93

Ted my friend,
That sounds like a lot of conjecture. Seems to me the evidence is that 25% of the Piedmont Planks are factory cuts. Do you have a scan of the ALC shipping documents you mention?
JimB

[atx840]

This is a very small sample size to state that no P150 Planks were factory cut. A few might have been, first run samplers or test prints.

I feel bad for the card though

[Cardboard Junkie]

In my humble opinion the plank mentioned does not deserve a numerical grade. dave.

[BleedinBlue]

I've still not held the card in my hand and need to defer to the experts who were convinced it was hand-cut before being swayed by the evidence that it was factory cut.

There was overwhelming evidence at one point that the earth was flat also.

[rdixon1208]

I thought about starting a new thread titled:

Reasons to disagree with Ted Zandikis' thread agreeing with Dan McKee's thread....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

I decided to just post on one of the threads that already existed instead.

[Runscott]

This Plank doesn't fit with any of the reasonable theories we currently have about the Plank. The theories we have were based on research, not on looking at the edges of a card under a magnifier. The theories could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, there's no monetary benefit to the theorists. Also, the card could have been hand-cut 100 years ago and the evidence worn away over time. Hard to say either way, but it's funny how people on both sides can be so absolutely certain that they are right.

Ted - thanks for sharing. Sorry to see the demeaning comments.

[Ronnie73]

I personally feel that the piedmont back Planks are all hand cut. The reason for it, I don't know but the theorys are interesting and possibly true. If the SGC numerical graded plank was hand cut from a sheet many many years ago and it was cut at exact size and the edges are properly aged, I can see how it would get a numerical grade. If there were documents stating the fact that all Piedmont Planks were hand cut, then it would have gotten an authentic grade. I know we all always say "buy the card and not the holder" but in this case, I believe the holder is going to sell the card at a much higher price than if the card was raw and believed to be hand cut which it still could be. Many now believe the Honus Wagner PSA 8 is hand cut but at its last sale, it wasn't a thought. Now that its a possibilty, would it still fetch the same price level? I do, unless its broken out of its case and regraded as authentic.

[frankbmd]

Corners have been scrambled and rotated.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Corners have been scrambled and rotated.

I pick the blurry one .

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

I pick the blurry one .

Correct. You win the scissors.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by atx840

I feel bad for the card though

Me too!

[ctownboy]

My question is and always has been this. If another T206 (say Harry Pattee) only had four known cards with a certain back and three of them were deemed hand cut, if a fourth were found and it looked factory cut, would it be graded and labeled as such or would it be deemed Authentic just like the other three?

My questions are, does the name on the front of the card, the owner and how much money is involved sway opinions in ways that a Harry Pattee owned by Joe Schmo wouldn't?

David

Edited to add this.

It seems to me that a lot of people think the Gretzky Wagner was cut from a sheet MANY years after the sheet was printed. Yet PSA graded it an 8 (or whatever). Now, if it was cut from a sheet and PSA had just graded it Authentic from the beginning, would people STILL want to pay $3 million dollars for it? Would OTHER Wagners be worth as much as they are now?

I doubt it for both questions.

The Gretzky Wagner seems to me to have the "all ships rise with the high tide" affect on the other Wagners. It sells for $1.5 million and the other Wagners increase when they sell. Gretzky Wagner sells for $2 million and all other Wagners increase when they sell. Gretzky Wagner sells for $3 million and all other Wagners increase when they sell.

This seems like a house of cards thing to me. Regrade the Gretzky Wagner and if it comes back as Authentic then it isn't a $3 million dollar card. If that happens then the next highest graded Wagner (a five?) wouldn't be a $2 million dollar card and so on down the line.

In short, take the Gretzky Wagner from the top of the heap and everything under it would have to be re-evaluated, re-examined and probably revalued.

If this Plank remains graded and sells for a high price then I can see ALL Planks going up in value and especially the hand cut cards graded as Authentic.

But that is just my opinion and what do I know??????

[Peter_Spaeth]

The same (somewhat circular) logic used to defend the Plank (SGC saw it up close so they must be right) should also apply to the Gretzky Wagner, but it seems a higher percentage of people think the Plank deserves its numerical grade than think the Wagner does. It's unfortunate no information about provvenance has been made available regarding the Plank.

I remain skeptical; it seems odd to me that after all this time the first ever factory-cut Piedmont Plank would suddenly emerge in a high grade holder; and (I understand the limitations of scans) the lower left corner looks unnatural.

[CMIZ5290]

It has been made clear on this forum that alot of the people are aginst the plank and magee cards...what about opinions on the other somewhat uncommon card, the sgc 84 doyle? The bottom right corner is what concerns me especially with the grade given. Can't imagine psa giving that card a 7.....