Reasons to agree with DAN McKEE....regarding the PIEDMONT Plank

[tedzan]

Prior to this Goodwin PIEDMONT Plank, only 3 (or 4) T206's with this Front/Back combo have been found. The best example of these Plank's is the
Charlie Conlin Plank. It is graded PSA Authentic. The provenance of Conlin's Plank is very noteworthy since it was cut from the same (partial) sheet
that included the Gretzky Wagner.

Now, my contention here is that there is a very high probability that this Goodwin PIEDMONT 150 Factory 25 Plank was never in a PIEDMONT pack.

Consider the following factors......

1......To date the only T206 Eddie Plank cards that are found Factory-Cut were printed with these 3 backs..........

SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory 25....Richmond, VA tobacco factory whose market distribution was primarily in the South, and included Pennsylvania

SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory 30....New York City, NY tobacco factory whose market distribution was primarily in the New York-New England area.

SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30....New York City, NY tobacco factory whose market distribution was primarily in the New York-New England area.


Surveys of these Plank cards indicate that the greater majority of them are either SC 150 Factory 30 or SC 350 Factory 30 cards. Very few are
SC 150 Factory 25 cards. The dearth of Factory 25 Plank cards, in my opinion can be attributed to American Litho's (ALC) intentions to avoid (or
minimize) the distribution of Plank's in the greater Philadelphia area.

It is known that Eddie Plank and his boss, Connie Mack, were anti-tobacco guys. I would dare say....that before all the hype associated with Honus
Wagner....Connie Mack (and/or) Eddie Plank issued a "cease & desist" order to the American Tobacco Co. to remove Plank's image from the T206 set.

If my hypothesis is valid, it can explain why there are few SC 150 Factory 25 Plank's. More significantly, it can also explain why PIEDMONT 150 Plank
cards were never marketed in PIEDMONT cigarette packs. It appears, ALC got around the cease & desist order (for a while longer) by excluding the
Philadelphia market since they stopped shipping Plank's to Factory 25.

However, ALC surrepticiously continued to market their SC 150 Plank by delivering them to the NYC factory (#30).....which shipped SWEET CAPORAL
cigarette packs to the New York and New England areas. This practice stretched out long enough for ALC to continue printing a number of Plank's into
their 350 Series.

2......Actual evidence of excluding the Philly market is alluded to in an ALC packing log that specifically states on a SWEET CAPORAL shipping pack's
destination....
"other than Philadelphia territory".

Finally, that's my take (after collecting T206's for 32 years) on why I don't think we will find a true Factory Cut T206 Plank with a PIEDMONT 150
back.

So, until the provenance of the Goodwin PIEDMONT Plank can be ascertained, I agree with Dan McKee that this card should not have a numerical
grade. I'm sure others on this forum may differ; and, that's fine as long as we can have a meaningful conversation on this subject.


T-Rex TED

[FrankWakefield]

Sounds reasonable to me, Ted. So we now hunker down while the 'responses' rain down...

[Gradedcardman]

Ted, I hope to gain this amount of knowledge to be included in some of these discussions. I look back and wonder where I would be with T206's had I not taken 15 years away from the hobby altogether.

[Leon]

The card is neither hand cut nor trimmed and is in the correct holder. Other theories are just that....theories.

[E93]

Ted my friend,
That sounds like a lot of conjecture. Seems to me the evidence is that 25% of the Piedmont Planks are factory cuts. Do you have a scan of the ALC shipping documents you mention?
JimB

[steve B]

I saved a scan from the auction.



The back writing does specify SC and philadelphia area and not philadelphia area. And I also think this could have some bearing on the Plank cards.

Since the piece is a partial page it isn't 100% certain that the cards were T206s, but it does show that during that period they were packing 1 per box of 10 for some areas, and 2 per box of 10 for philadelphia. The notation below is for military cards, so it's a sound idea that the top notes refer to T206s.

Another thing to note is that the packing priod for other than philadelphia territory was nearly a month, and the packing for philadelphia territory was only about 10 days.

Also the packing log fragment is from factory 649, which also separates it from Plank distribution.

I'm not convinced the card in question is handcut, but Teds theory does make some sense.

Steve B

Originally Posted by E93

Ted my friend,
That sounds like a lot of conjecture. Seems to me the evidence is that 25% of the Piedmont Planks are factory cuts. Do you have a scan of the ALC shipping documents you mention?
JimB

[atx840]

This is a very small sample size to state that no P150 Planks were factory cut. A few might have been, first run samplers or test prints.

I feel bad for the card though

[Cardboard Junkie]

In my humble opinion the plank mentioned does not deserve a numerical grade. dave.

[Ronnie73]

I personally feel that the piedmont back Planks are all hand cut. The reason for it, I don't know but the theorys are interesting and possibly true. If the SGC numerical graded plank was hand cut from a sheet many many years ago and it was cut at exact size and the edges are properly aged, I can see how it would get a numerical grade. If there were documents stating the fact that all Piedmont Planks were hand cut, then it would have gotten an authentic grade. I know we all always say "buy the card and not the holder" but in this case, I believe the holder is going to sell the card at a much higher price than if the card was raw and believed to be hand cut which it still could be. Many now believe the Honus Wagner PSA 8 is hand cut but at its last sale, it wasn't a thought. Now that its a possibilty, would it still fetch the same price level? I do, unless its broken out of its case and regraded as authentic.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by atx840

I feel bad for the card though

Me too!

[CMIZ5290]

So much for all the speculations and concerns about cards being handcut or trimmed.....it looks like they are off and running in good fashion.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

So much for all the speculations and concerns about cards being handcut or trimmed.....it looks like they are off and running in good fashion.

Less than 3 hours after opening the Wags is at about 750k after juice and the Plank is at about 125k after juice. Nice start with 3 weeks to go......

[tedzan]

We are entering a new day here with this Plank scenario. I can foresee the possibility of a new "MILLION DOLLAR T206"......by the
time all is said and done with this PIEDMONT Plank.

After all....it has all the attributes of the Gretzky Wagner......

Due to their anti-tobacco reasons, these Pennsylvanians....Wagner, Plank (and/or Connie Mack) forced ATC to remove their image
from the T206 set.

The highest numeric graded PIEDMONT cards of Wagner and Plank are "questionable".


WHATEVER, unlike the PSA 8 Wagner, though, this Plank has no provenance (at least, not yet).


TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

...

After all....it has all the attributes of the Gretzky Wagner......

Due to their anti-tobacco reasons, these Pennsylvanians....Wagner, Plank (and/or Connie Mack) forced ATC to remove their image
from the T206 set.

The highest numeric graded PIEDMONT cards of Wagner and Plank are "questionable".


WHATEVER, unlike the PSA 8 Wagner, though, this Plank has no provenance (at least, not yet).


TED Z

Ted, there is a HUGE difference between the two cards. The Plank appears to SGC, to be factory-cut. The Wagner provenance you mention indicates that it was hand-cut. All of the PSA 8 Wagner owners have had to pretend like the emperor was wearing a new suit. The new Plank owners will simply have to believe what appears to be honest grading (at least to me).

[dstraate]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

So much for all the speculations and concerns about cards being handcut or trimmed.....it looks like they are off and running in good fashion.

I wonder whether or not all of this discussion helps or hurts the final price actualized on these cards. No press is bad press.

[ullmandds]

I'm guessing this discussion will have zero impact on the final hammer price of these cards.

Originally Posted by dstraate

I wonder whether or not all of this discussion helps or hurts the final price actualized on these cards. No press is bad press.