T206 Buyers Beware

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Tim, no disrespect but I believe your analysis concerning the shifting to the left of the bottom text is incorrect.

Iggy - Never any disrespect and thank you for continuing to look at it. If the caption was printed with the brown color pass it should be off like the rest of the brown in the image. But after looking at it more closely you're right and I believe the captions on the two bad cards are fake and not part of subject image that was used.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Iggy - Never any disrespect and thank you for continuing to look at it. If the caption was printed with the brown color pass it should be off like the rest of the brown in the image. But after looking at it more closely you're right and I believe the captions on the two bad cards are fake and not part of subject image that was used.

What are your thoughts on how the front was reconstructed? I can see them scraping off the original image and adding a new one, as described in my previous post, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could scrape off the original caption and print a new one, AND get it past the graders.

Perhaps I give the graders too much credit.

Thoughts?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

What are your thoughts on how the front was reconstructed? I can see them scraping off the original image and adding a new one, as described in my previous post, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could scrape off the original caption and print a new one, AND get it past the graders.

Perhaps I give the graders too much credit.

Thoughts?

Check-out the following scans....evident in the lower part of the Donlin card is the start of image disintegration (that is typical of white-bordered cards that have been
affected by adverse conditions).

The Piedmont 350 card (center) was a T206 Peaches Graham. It had extensive image disintegration. I carefully scraped the ink flakes off it, resulting in a "Blank Front"
T206 (seen in the right scan).

This is the start of the re-fronted process of a T206. Given the technology that exists nowadays, the entire front image of a T206 is faithfully reproduced to the extent that it will fool the Grader. A professional paper restorer will then laminate this repro front onto a real "frontless" T206. The paper restorer will repeat this process until he
creates a "fake" T206 that it is virtually un-discernable from a real one.







TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Check-out the following scans....evident in the lower part of the Donlin card is the start of image disintegration (that is typical of white-bordered cards that have been
affected by adverse conditions).

The Piedmont 350 card (center) was a T206 Peaches Graham. It had extensive image disintegration. I carefully scraped the ink flakes off it, resulting in a "Blank Front"
T206 (seen in the right scan).

This is the start of the re-fronted process of a T206. Given the technology that exists nowadays, the entire front image of a T206 is faithfully reproduced to the extent that it will fool the Grader. A professional paper restorer will then laminate this repro front onto a real "frontless" T206. The paper restorer will repeat this process until he
creates a "fake" T206 that it is virtually un-discernable from a real one.

TED Z

Ted, Tim stated that he thinks the Matty caption was added by the forger. Adding a caption that could get past a grading company would require:

1. re-creating the white background over the cardboard
2. stamping the caption with the same font used in real T206's
3. stamping the caption with the same similar ink used in real T206's
4. stamping the caption using the same process used in real T206's

I don't see how the above could be done, which is why I've asked for Tim's thoughts. Not saying it CAN'T be done, just wondering how.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Lee

[steve B]

Here's a Barry with nearly no caption. A decent sized lower border, and the caption just barely visible at the lower edge. The brown is shifted down on this one.


But the same seller had a Schmidt that had a full lower border and no caption. I was sure I'd saved the scan, but haven't found it yet.

re-creating the white background isn't necessary if the original front is simply erased.

Using the same font isn't hard.

using the same ink isn't needed, merely one close to the same color

Using the same method also isn't all that hard. And not entirely required.

duplicating a small section of text on one color is fairly simple. Duplicating the entire image would be a challenge, but may be possible.

As a related question, maybe one that should get its own thread- Where are the wrongbacks? Nearly every other sort of T206 scrap or error has turned up, I would think that at some point a leftover sheet of say 150 series would have been used as makeready sheets or marker sheets for a later series or for a brand that didn't use that image. So there should be at least a handful of 150 only cards with 350 or even 460 backs. (Not saying that these are wrongbacks just that some should exist somewhere. And I'd be more comfortable seeing a common.)

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

re-creating the white background isn't necessary if the original front is simply erased.

Using the same font isn't hard.

using the same ink isn't needed, merely one close to the same color

Using the same method also isn't all that hard. And not entirely required.

duplicating a small section of text on one color is fairly simple. Duplicating the entire image would be a challenge, but may be possible.


Steve B

Steve, you're saying it's all easy, but not saying answering 'how'. If the font can be 'simply erased', such that it could FOOL THE GRADER, we'd have so many error cards encapsulated that they wouldn't be worth anything.

Same thing is true if it's really that easy to find ink that's close to the same color and a similar font and method - can you imagine how many Slow Joe Doyles we'd have with Nat'l?

I'm still not seeing this.

[tedzan]

Let's get back on the main track here......and, that's Tim's original subject of these two fake T206's, that were good enough to fool the Grading Co's.

We went thru a rash of these fake T206's approx. 12 years ago (and in few cases, we still are). So, here goes an important question for you all to consider......

Is the quality increasing of these professionally altered T206's......or, is the quality of the professional grading services decreasing ?

Or, perhaps a combination of both of these factors ? ?


T-Rex TED