This looks interesting indeed

[Jaybird]

I think I'm done beating this horse. Last point other than to say that I won't be bidding at H&S anymore.


Bottom line, an item is worth a certain amount of money. H&S bidding on their own items allows them to bid up items close to that value. If an item is too low, they bid it up until it gets closer to the real value. If they lose, great. They get all the fees, etc. On the other side, if they win, they still get an item near the value of the item and then resell it on HOC. Even if they break even or lose at HOC, they can declare that loss or break even. I'm sure they make up any break even or loss (of which I don't think there is any) by all of their "losing" bids.

Let me make it clear that I don't know how many items they are bidding on. But I'm sure it is judicious and calculated. They aren't going to go crazy and win items way over value. They are going to get them right up there near the value that they think they can sell them for on HOC. But, if they can get a $1200 item for $1100 and then resell it for $1200, they make $100. If a buyer wins the item at $1000 (one increment lower), he breaks even.

I don't see how this can be a level playing field and I ain't playing on it anymore.

[pgellis]

How about these 2 lots?

http://jan12.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=41124

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-JGA-Jap...item53eb994c40

[mordecaibrown]

Vintage Chris - sorry for the confusion, yes we agree and I was referring to the other chris.

Jaybird - summed it up PERFECTLY.

In this case, maybe they took a shot and only made a little. The damage is in the lots that they place on the lots they DONT win. In those cases, they increased the bid price and therefore the buyers premium - making themselves more money. And you have NO idea - you think your in a bidding war with another bidder, but it could be the auction house.

There is no way of ever knowing when HOC is putting bids in on an item unless its the last winning bidder and then you see the cards on ebay in their store. How often do they bid on an auction raising a price to what they feel is acceptable and you never know?

A.ndy Ke.nned.y

[atx840]

Thanks guys, I think we are in agreement that it can be quite shady and yes if they bump but don't win they WIN on the consigners fee + the BP. We will never know.

one tiny thing Jason - "if they can get a $1200 item for $1100" how would they get something at $1100 that you and I couldnt? Saving on the BP or consigners fee? If they are then that savings hurts H&Ss profit by $100, so no advantage.

all around they should just stay out of it, go bid on everything else out there.

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by atx840

Thanks guys, I think we are in agreement that it can be quite shady and yes if they bump but don't win they WIN on the consigners fee + the BP. We will never know.

one tiny thing Jason - "if they can get a $1200 item for $1100" how would they get something at $1100 that you and I couldnt? Saving on the BP or consigners fee? If they are then that savings hurts H&Ss profit by $100, so no advantage.

all around they should just stay out of it, go bid on everything else out there.

I guess we're just nitpicking now since we all agree that it ain't right, or at least some of us agree.

The advantage is that they now have the item. Profit isn't realized until that item is sold. We'd have to track the item until it is finally sold to decide where the profit was won or lost.

[Exhibitman]

You don't need to be a professional ethicist to know that what H & S is doing with HOC is dishonest. Owning a few items at net bid cost with no real BP, no real commission and no shipping is a small price to pay for all of the added bid increments--i.e., added BP fees and commission fees, since both are % calculations--that SHILLING through HOC permits H & S to make. It is crooked as the day is long, in my humble opinion, and no amount of clever talk will get around it. I don't have a problem with an auctioneer selling its own stuff but an auctioneer should not be bidding on items in its own sale, period, regardless of whether done directly or through a related entity. The appearance of impropriety is too great.

I'm Ad@m W@rsh@w and I approve this message.

[hugginsandscott]

So look, we at Huggins and Scott have ALWAYS tried to do the “right thing.” Certainly none of our actions are meant to hurt, deceive, show any dishonesty or lack of integrity. While we could show you auction invoices with hammer prices and buyers premiums, along with matching cancelled checks, just to prove that EVERYONE pays the 17.5% buyers premium, it just doesn’t seem that it would really do any good at this point.

In light of your voices that have spoken loudly, we have have instituted the following policy effective immediately: No one who is currently employed with Huggins and Scott or House of Cards may bid on any items in any Huggins and Scott Auctions. I can assure you, none of this will happen again with our auctions.

Bill Huggins
President
Huggins and Scott Auctions
www.hugginsandscott.com
1-866-462-2273
auction@hugginsandscott.com

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by pgellis

How about these 2 lots?

http://jan12.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=41124

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-JGA-Jap...item53eb994c40

From the same lot:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1985-Mi...ht_2329wt_1185

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1973-Ja...ht_2332wt_1165

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-Tokyo-...ht_2766wt_1165

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-c-1960s...ht_2664wt_1165