T206 Speaker NO RED in Goodwin

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

Yeah, I don't really understand how just the uniform is missing the red...

+1

[eb548]

Agreed with the confusion on how this happened. Not exactly sure how the error occurred but I think that's what makes the card so cool coupled with the fact that it's speaker. I have only seen one other like it. There was someone at the national last year who had it at a table and told me he never saw another example like it previously. Rare or not rare it's a great card!

[danmckee]

The fact that there are 3 of them and none related from where they originated leads me to believe they are legit.

I think you got ripped off on that Dahlen, I would return it for a refund immediately!

Dan

[t206blogcom]

Dan - You sold it to me. Are you saying you ripped me off?

Originally Posted by danmckee

I think you got ripped off on that Dahlen, I would return it for a refund immediately!

Dan

[iggyman]

Since a can of worms has been opened and it's kind of slow here at the corporate level. The fact that the Dahlen is missing the color red (or faded), is most certainly due to exposure to light/vapors/chemicals as opposed to something done at the factory. Since it cannot be determined with 100% accuracy whether this statement is actually true, it unfortunately renders the value of the card at the level of a normal beater T206 Dahlen (without any sort of a premium added).

On the other hand, the T206 Speaker "partial missing red" looks cool and probably deserves a small premium (since, in my mind it could conceivably happen at the factory level). However, the missing red could also have been caused by exposure to light/vapors/chemicals/ or even doctors. The fact that at least three cards are known to exist, doesn't add that much credibility, since all three cards could have certainly been together in someones shed from the Roosevelt through Reagan years or worst yet, had been together in Pat Chan's museum.

Lovely Day...

[danmckee]

To whoever is telling Jason that Dahlen has been altered, please feel free to write me directly. I got a group of T206s that had about 6 cards missing the red and I actually got 2 Dahlen's in there. Hence I sold the extra to Jason. Now some self proclaimed expert is telling him it was altered??

Email me directly expert and I will send you the scans of the others.

For what I paid for the group, if someone altered them, they didn't reap any benefits from the alterations.

Dan Mckee

P.S. and for those of you who know me, you would know I was joking when I stated he was ripped off and to return it immediately, fully knowing I sold it to him.

This board is amazing!

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by danmckee

P.S. and for those of you who know me, you would know I was joking when I stated he was ripped off and to return it immediately, fully knowing I sold it to him.

Dan - I didn't realize you were joking; sorry that it set off a firestorm. This Dahlen is one of my favorite cards and I get upset when people claim it's fake. And for the record, our transaction was pleasant and I have no problems with it.

Jason

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Since a can of worms has been opened and it's kind of slow here at the corporate level. The fact that the Dahlen is missing the color red (or faded), is most certainly due to exposure to light/vapors/chemicals as opposed to something done at the factory. Since it cannot be determined with 100% accuracy whether this statement is actually true, it unfortunately renders the value of the card at the level of a normal beater T206 Dahlen (without any sort of a premium added).

On the other hand, the T206 Speaker "partial missing red" looks cool and probably deserves a small premium (since, in my mind it could conceivably happen at the factory level). However, the missing red could also have been caused by exposure to light/vapors/chemicals/ or even doctors. The fact that at least three cards are known to exist, doesn't add that much credibility, since all three cards could have certainly been together in someones shed from the Roosevelt through Reagan years or worst yet, had been together in Pat Chan's museum.

Lovely Day...

If the Dahlen was altered, the spot where the B should have been would be affected. Hence you can still see the dot patteren applied there. No alteration has been done to this card and it was acquired in a group where no premium was assessed and it wasn't from a baseball card guy.

But I appreciate your expert advice though wrong in this case.

Thanks.

[Runscott]

removed.

Not aimed at you Dan, but the hypocrisy is wearing me out.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

Dan - You sold it to me. Are you saying you ripped me off?

Dan was joking I'm sure. Next time insert a smiley Dan not everyone here knows you’re a sarcastic mean ol’ drunk of a collector. (See you can say anything with a smiley behind it)



As for the card your Dahlen I see no real issues or red lights. The area like Dan said doesn't seem to be affected you can still see the faint area of the "B" in most of these there is always a faint trace but some have none. In summary I think the Dahlen is fine at a glance and the seller is a top notch guy that I would vouch for any day.

As for the masterminds and forgeries I think folks like Iggy watch too much CSI and Oceans Eleven and end up giving these guys way too much credit or talking a bit to SciFi in theory. The facts are Chan was nothing more than d-bag in a his little house who ordered a rubber stamp from stamps.com and took advantage of something so simple….collector passion. Every collector suffers from this they want something rare for a deal and when it’s found or in hand they want to believe and logic goes out the window. What was brilliant about Chan and most of these fakes are not the complexity of the forgeries but the simplicity and the fact that it is so easily missed in hobby filled with skeptics.

In the end Chan had about as much in the way of master forger skills as my next door neighbor’s kid. She also plays with stamps just from her would have had to believe the Dora overprint T206. Heck even all the stuff Kevin S use to show on here was very Showtime at the Apollo IMO.

As for the re-back guys like Moser once again most of those are easy to spot however if they have made it into graded cases well now that makes it harder. If it were me and I was looking at a super tough back star card or impossible combo in a holder I would ask to crack inspect and then re-holder at the grading company prior to me putting out cash.

Cheers,

John

[iggyman]

John,

You are right, I gave Chan way too much credit, my T206 museum statement was meant more as a bad attempt at humor. Nothing more, you can take your shots at me if you like, I've always been a big admirer of your wit. I'm not implying that card doctors are making the color red disappear, but the reality is that the color red on T206 cards can fade. Thus, if that is a true statement, it makes all these cards irrelevant, no matter how many cool orange background cards Ted Z might show. Here is a classic example of a red background card that was probably exposed to light.

t206 cobb orange.jpg

Perhaps it came out of the factory that way, but in reality the color red faded except in the upper right corner. Now, did cards come out of the factory with orange background or missing red.............of course! Can the run of the mill T206 collector tell the difference between a "factory" created or "faded" missing red??? Nope, and I'm sure most DNA certified T206 experts couldn't either!

Lovely Day...

[wonkaticket]

Iggy, I wasn't taking shots at you just saying I thought folks gave a lot of these guys way to much credit in terms of doctored cards. I lumped you in sorry if I offended you.

I also agree many can be exposure vs. at time of production but the Dahlen looked ok to me no real super red flags.

As for the color red fading due to exposure I think that having a color like red only fade and green, yellow, blue etc. not also be affected would be tough to explain so I don’t follow you there. But I'm happy to learn and would like to if you can explain how just red is effected by exposure.

In the end I just don’t see some super lab with a mad scientist with a special brew of chemicals knocking out certain colors and then selling commons and beaters for $300 vs. $20. Seems like a lot of work and a lot of expertise for such a little return…Kevin S tried to show that he could do it never saw one card he worked that looked legit. I also think if it was so easy you would see these everywhere sort of like trimmed cards and reprints no shortage of those.

Now re-backing and overprints….well…that’s another story money to be had there for sure if you’re a dirty clown.

Cheers,

John

P.S. That Cobb still has quite a bit of red in his cheeks FWIW, I think many of these are nothing more than print oddities. For gods sake you should see what my laser printer and ink jets at the office do when they get low on one color. So I think a lot of stuff left these factories wacky I know it did. I used to toss back these cards in deals saying they were ugly back in the day ughhh. It really just depends if you want to pay extra for these or not IMO.